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nicewitch
Draconis Combine
Shujin
Joined: 29-Oct-2012 15:24
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 Posted: 12-Feb-2013 16:29 Post subject: Caseless precision cluster flak proximity fused AC ammo |
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This type of ammunition is only available for standard autocannons, light autocannons, and subcapital autocannons, and capital autocannons; not RACs, UACs, or LB-Xes. It's made using all the rules of caseless AC ammo, precision AC ammo, cluster flak AC ammo, and proximity fused AC ammo.
The to-hit modifier when using this ammo is -15:
-2 precision
-3 cluster flak
-10 proximity fused (an ammo that was mentioned in the 30255-3026 Partisan Heavy Tank capabilities section and in its battle history section there's mentioning of these shells destroying missiles launched by Kurita Shilones); I haven't seen rules for proximity fused ammo so I'm making them up.
After an attack of this ammo hits a target, roll 2D6 and consult the Cluster Hits Table to determine the location each damage point hits. To determine the tonnage for this ammo, take comparable normal ammo of the same damage and double its tonnage. Comments?
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
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| Posted: 12-Feb-2013 21:10 Post subject: Caseless precision cluster flak proximity fused AC ammo |
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Ummm, -15 to-hit... no further comments needed
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nicewitch
Draconis Combine
Shujin
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| Posted: 12-Feb-2013 22:47 Post subject: Caseless precision cluster flak proximity fused AC ammo |
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I think Rick Raisley said it best since he advocates using whatever you want as long as you use BV to balance forces.
www.heavymetalpro.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21076
Remember, this ammo follows the rules for caseless ammo. So a to-hit roll of 2 results in the shot destroying the autocannon.
How do you all feel about having a 3D6 roll on the Cluster Hits Table; and if there aren't two lowest dice rolled, then the two higher or three highest dice rolled causes a -3 modifier applied to the Cluster Hits Table roll.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
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| Posted: 12-Feb-2013 23:39 Post subject: Caseless precision cluster flak proximity fused AC ammo |
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Not that we can see any BV value around...
This thing is really way too good for most games and just slapping it in would totally put the game of ballance in most written scenarios.
Actually precision quality on ammo reduces only the modifier for moving targets and flak only works on airborne targets so combining these with cluster quality would still mostly result with -3 on moving ground based targets.
If I was concerned with proximity fuse then I'd let the shot be treated as area attack on single hex in LOS, doing half damage to any units on hex on which the shot was fired, spreading the damage in 5 point increments, much like an artillery strike. The other qualities wouldn't apply and the ammo would contain only half of the usual number of shots.
Even then it would need some work.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 13-Feb-2013 14:35 Post subject: Re: Caseless precision cluster flak proximity fused AC ammo |
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| nicewitch wrote: | | Comments? |
I have a comment, but Mordel will get mad at me if I post it.
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ICER
Clan Hell's Horses
Galaxy Commander
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| Posted: 13-Feb-2013 18:00 Post subject: Caseless precision cluster flak proximity fused AC ammo |
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I would have to agree with Dragon, making such a precise weapon would really mess up the game balance.
IMHO, The precision of the Virtual World pods is what killed it, It was so easy to kill someone with a well placed head shots.
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nicewitch
Draconis Combine
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| Posted: 14-Feb-2013 08:22 Post subject: Re: Caseless precision cluster flak proximity fused AC ammo |
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| I considered using area effect rules on a single hex to do half damage on all targets in said hex, but I rejected that idea for two reasons: first, that would be a lot of targets that could get hit in an 18km space hex; and second, the Clans consider area effect weapons to be dishonorable combat. I didn't expect any proximity fused rules to be tournament rules, but instead I think they might make for some interesting advanced rules given how that Strategic Operations allows aerofighters a +1 to-hit modifier defensive bonus per thrust point spent.
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Sleeping Dragon
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| Posted: 14-Feb-2013 16:13 Post subject: Re: Caseless precision cluster flak proximity fused AC ammo |
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For aerospace battle you need different rules. This kind of effect could be achived if ship AA weapons were somehow grouped for coordinated fire to create a flak barrier.
For example a ship could announce setting ammo to explode on certain hex and any entering unit next round would take half damage. This way a capital ship could use it's big guns to create a maze that says "Stay away!"
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nicewitch
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| Posted: 15-Feb-2013 07:37 Post subject: Re: Caseless precision cluster flak proximity fused AC ammo |
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| You mean like SO p. 100 rules for bracketing fire?
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Sleeping Dragon
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| Posted: 15-Feb-2013 11:34 Post subject: Re: Caseless precision cluster flak proximity fused AC ammo |
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A bit like that, but instead of targeting a unit you target an area, trying to fend off attackers by making it deadly to enter. Sort of a temporary minefield. The trick would be to determine the area size so that the attack mode is viable, but not overpowered. Technically you could use ship's big guns to create a cage around fighter wing for example. The big guns are not efficient and eat up a lot of capital ammo while doing this, but the damage could be grievous.
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Vagabond
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| Posted: 15-Feb-2013 16:44 Post subject: Re: Caseless precision cluster flak proximity fused AC ammo |
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| Sleeping Dragon wrote: | | A bit like that, but instead of targeting a unit you target an area, trying to fend off attackers by making it deadly to enter. Sort of a temporary minefield. The trick would be to determine the area size so that the attack mode is viable, but not overpowered. Technically you could use ship's big guns to create a cage around fighter wing for example. The big guns are not efficient and eat up a lot of capital ammo while doing this, but the damage could be grievous. |
my only issue with this is that it should noted that while such things are effective in war they would be a real bitch to civilian traffic afterwords. Kinetic objects stay a hazard forever as strike risks.
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Vagabond
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| Posted: 15-Feb-2013 16:46 Post subject: Re: Caseless precision cluster flak proximity fused AC ammo |
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Also on a side note after a bit of thought, flak fire ASSUMES a proximity or distance fuse. So a proximity fuse would be analogous too the -3 vs. flying for flak and a -1 vs. ground.
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Sleeping Dragon
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| Posted: 16-Feb-2013 02:49 Post subject: Re: Caseless precision cluster flak proximity fused AC ammo |
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Well, we're really solving two different things here. A big boom flak in capital scale, where you are trying to make puffs of shrapnel in whole capital hex, which is a hell of a space. I take it that the grenades after exploding fill certain area with shards flying at high speed for next round and largery disperse to less angerous concentration next round simply because everything continues traveling further. On second thought the damage should be lower. Like 25% and could be some 10% (with capital scale even that is a rather large amount for NACs and bigger missiles) in surrounding hexes and attitudes next round, but that strikes me as annoying to track.
Next thing is in normal scale where the ammo would be used against VTOLs by normal weapons. These could be safely ignored on capital scale or could be used as to-hit modifier, but I wouldn't allow it to go further than with LB-X Flak
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Vagabond
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| Posted: 16-Feb-2013 03:38 Post subject: Caseless precision cluster flak proximity fused AC ammo |
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if you want rules for flak filling a hex, look at the screen launcher rules for AT2. They could be used to fill a hex with hazards.
www.sarna.net/wiki/Screen_Launcher
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Sleeping Dragon
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| Posted: 16-Feb-2013 13:15 Post subject: Caseless precision cluster flak proximity fused AC ammo |
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Screen launcher is far more permanent and not so dangerous. I'm talking about flak, not debris dispenser to fool sensors.
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