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CYBRN4CR
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Private
Joined: 16-Feb-2010 09:33
Posts: 49
Location: United States
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 Posted: 19-Feb-2010 05:25 Post subject: Gunnery/Piloting Values vs Military Rank |
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Hey, y'all! 8)
I'm curious what gunnery/piloting values are reasonable for Inner Sphere military ranks. This is important as I want to make sure the pilots of my custom mercenary unit have gunnery/piloting values appropriate for their rank.
I've read somewhere that 4/5 pilots are equal to regular pilots. If this is true, if my merc unit recruits a mechwarrior from the pool of mechwarriors seeking employment, is it safe to assume that, on average, the mechwarrior will be a 4/5?
What about Green pilots? Where do they fit in? Are they akin to trainees still learning how to pilot the darn thing called a mech? Or are these the recruits fresh out of mech school that go to join the job boards and militaries of the Inner Sphere? If so what are their gunnery/piloting values?
Again for Lieutenants, Captains, Colonels, and Brigadier Generals. How many years of service do mechwarriors have to be in the regular military (or merc unit) to attain these ranks? What are the gunnery/piloting values for them?
What if my merc unit specializes in sniping mechs at range? Think of regular snipers in the military today. If this is how pilots in my unit are trained, what bonus in gunnery/piloting would be reasonable for my units, along with their rank?
There is a lot I don't know about this, so I need some experienced opinions here. 
Thanks in advance! 
_________________
Cheers,
CYBRN4CR "Cyber Enforcer"
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 19-Feb-2010 08:52 Post subject: Gunnery/Piloting Values vs Military Rank |
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4/5 is indeed a standard pilot for whatever you find in battletech. Both BV and BV2 listed values assume this quality of pilots. In general clans are said to have 3/4 Mech and aerospace pilots and BAs while their conventional infantry and vehicle crews are often under-trained 5/6s.
You can find the pilot gunnery / piloting skill info on p. 39-40 and 271-273 in Total Warfare (there are also some tables that may help you with unit creation) or on p. 14-15 and 108 of the Battletech Master Rules (15-16 and 114 BMR Revised), which is the older, but mostly still valid edition of Battletech rules.
- Green troops are generally representing either trainees or poorly trained militia For clans these also often play the role of standard foot infantry and vehicles, which are generally relegated to patrol captured areas or guarding of second rate objectives.
- Regular troops are fully trained and battle-ready, a standard fare for Successor state armies.
- Veterans are just that. They've already seen quite some combat, those who survived already know how to fight. Clan front line 'Mech jocks and Elementals are often of this quality, because the undesireables are weeded out through trials and replaced with more capable troops crawling to more prestigeous position, rising the overall unit quality.
- Elite troops are... the elite. Trained on the most prestigious academies, and tempered in combat the elite troops are rare, but capable.These are usually found in widely known units, like the Sword of Light, Death Commandos or Black Widow Company.
Overall the rank of the trooper doesn't have direct relation to the skill of the troops. Higher ranks should have the same or better training than the troops they command, but there can be exceptions (Lyran social generals). A green platoon's sgt. might be a veteran trainer or just as wet behind the ears as them, promoted to position just because he has shown some skill and there wasn't anybody better around. Armies in Battletech are often working with whatever is at hand on the world where the unit is stationed, peaceful agrarian world deep in state's territory will likely produce tons of green troops, while border worlds are likely to have lesser quantity of troops, but higher overall quality, because everyone is growning up in a highly militarized environment. Merc units generally have at least regular troops, but badly mauled or impoverished units may hire even green personnel. I think you won't be alone in the business of specialized mercenaries. The Periphery Star Guard for example works as a space defense force, Medusans work as a space military transport and Kraken Unleashed are aquatic combat specialists. I think your concept is fine and preponderance of good gunners and bad piloting could work for you just fine...
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CYBRN4CR
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Private
Joined: 16-Feb-2010 09:33
Posts: 49
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Feb-2010 09:29 Post subject: Gunnery/Piloting Values vs Military Rank |
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Thank you so much for your help! 
So would this gradient work for my merc sniper unit?
Private 4/5
Corporal 4/5
Sergeant 3/5
Sergeant Major 3/4
2nt Lieutenant 2/4
Lieutenant 2/3
Captain 1/3
Major 1/2
Lieut. Col 0/2
Colonel 0/1
Ace/Brigadeer 0/0
If not, what is a good gunnery/piloting value for a "mech sniper" according to what you said?
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Cheers,
CYBRN4CR "Cyber Enforcer"
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Feb-2010 12:07 Post subject: Gunnery/Piloting Values vs Military Rank |
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The are skills, they don't really have a military Rank, some sergeants are going to be better mech pilots then officers, others may not be.
Skill sets don't automatically give you rank, I know plenty of people who can fix tanks or trucks or know a weapons system front to back and all the neat things there is to know about it and they can't lead ants to a picnic.
Merc units follow traditional military scales, you start out as nothing and you move up or you don't. Even in a real military the officers learn from the NCOs, even with schooling they don't know everything and if they are smart and want to last long, they will listen to the NCOs and learn.
Same would be true in the BT universe, just because you have a skill set, doesn't mean you are going to be top dog.
A green pilot could be anyone, from a retrained truck driver to a cook who is needed to fill a slot.
Officers normally are one of three times:
School trained, ie they went to a military academy. Think West Point or Sandhurts. They have the training, but they are still kept in check by the NCOs of the units they end up in.
For LTs (both 2nd and 1st) most getting promoted means they have a slot open, aka a job available, 2 to 3 years could go by before they are promoted, some can pulling it of in two years getting bumped up on to 1st LT, others not so lucky. Then once they reach captain, they are either going to be on a staff for a few years, then sent out to command a unit for normally two years, then get moved to another command. So say 5 to 6 years before they see Major. Then most Majors end up on staff, doing the command schools and other things. The higher in rank, the more time it will take. The more schooling you need and the more ability to show you know what you are doing, now this doesn't all ways work but in theory that is what is suppose to happen.
IF your uber elite unit, which it sounds like you want to make, I suggest you stick with one or two "elites" and have the rest be mixed of veterans, average and green, is always training and always taking missions, they yes they could be higher in skill levels and have the 0/0 pilot and gunnery, BUT and understand this part, that is NOT likely to happen and would be very RARE and UNHEARD of.
Not all of the Dragoons are elites, highly trained, yes, but not all are elite or crack warriors, same is true for all the other merc units.
But it is your game, your group, I suggest you scale it back and trying to stay with in some form of reality, leave the uber units and crazy skills to TPTB (the powers that be, aka the writers.) and work on building up your reputation and skill set as whole unit, not just a single group of "Immortal Warriors".
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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CYBRN4CR
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Private
Joined: 16-Feb-2010 09:33
Posts: 49
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Feb-2010 16:11 Post subject: Gunnery/Piloting Values vs Military Rank |
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I'm not trying to make them immortal. I'm trying to make them realistic as possible. Especially where pilots are concerned. 
So thanks Karagin for the input. That helps a lot. 
_________________
Cheers,
CYBRN4CR "Cyber Enforcer"
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 19-Feb-2010 18:57 Post subject: Gunnery/Piloting Values vs Military Rank |
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What I meant by 'Mech snipers was that instead of regular 4/5 'mech snipers are usually better at shooting and simultaneously they are much less trained to perform various feats of high pilotage with their machines (they don't receive a fair share of damage, they don't try to make unusual moves , like standing up or keep ballance after mising a kick, nearly as often, ...) so I thought that your regulars would be something like 3/6.
Otherwise try to consider the Long Range Targeting System (-1 bonus for firing at long range, +1 penalty at short range - it can be found somewhere in the Maximum Tech or Tactical Operations, but I'm too lazy to look at the moment), if you are using some of the advanced stuff. It weights nothing, but for a sniper unit it would be the prime working tool, along with the targeting computer.
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The dragon NEVER sleeps!
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CYBRN4CR
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Private
Joined: 16-Feb-2010 09:33
Posts: 49
Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Feb-2010 06:53 Post subject: Gunnery/Piloting Values vs Military Rank |
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Thanks, man. That definitely helped put things into perspective.
As such, I've modified my gradient a little. It's not quite the 3/6 you mentioned (though, I agree it makes sense 8) ).
Here is my revised gradient.
Private 5/6 Green pilots fresh from mech school ( usuallly placed in artillery roles)
Corporal 5/5
Sergeant 4/5 Regular pilots (usu in scout mechs and sniper mechs)
Sergeant Major 4/4
2nt Lieutenant 3/4 Veteran pilots (usu Lance leaders in Heavy Sniper mechs)
Lieutenant 3/3
Captain 2/3 Elite pilots (only a handful and are never far from my characters - they help delegate orders to the lieutenants)
Major 2/2 Majors usually fit the role of bodyguards for my characters. Kind of like the Secret Service
Lieut. Col 1/2
Colonel 1/1 Two of my characters are colonels, and have these values as they've had a long military track record.
Brigadeer 0/1
Ace 0/0 Two of my characters are aces. One is the former CO with the longest military history of anyone, the other is a true ace pilot.
Totals:
15 Green pilots
60 Regular pilots
17 Veteran pilots (including the current CO and his rival!)
12 Elite pilots
2 Super elite
2 Ace
Otherwise, if the whole gradient concept is flawed, I could take your 3/6 idea and have them in the sniper mechs and have 4/4s in scouts as they need to TAG stuff and shoot while running. Essentially, have gunnery/piloting be balanced for the role of the mech, and throw rank out of the whole equation as rank is better left for pilot fluff.
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Cheers,
CYBRN4CR "Cyber Enforcer"
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Feb-2010 13:08 Post subject: Gunnery/Piloting Values vs Military Rank |
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| wrote: | Totals:
15 Green pilots
60 Regular pilots
17 Veteran pilots (including the current CO and his rival!)
12 Elite pilots
2 Super elite
2 Ace |
You would be better off taking THIS and rolling on the random charts.
You can even do it using the PC.
Download RUS
Download the additional tables (some of which I made, YAY!) for RUS from PRI
For the "Super Elite" and "Ace" pilots you can add modifiers to the rolls. (Like the extra data files from PRI have +1 & +2 charts)
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Feb-2010 13:18 Post subject: Gunnery/Piloting Values vs Military Rank |
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He could use that program, it is a really good resource to have. Another fine addition from HMP...
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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CYBRN4CR
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Private
Joined: 16-Feb-2010 09:33
Posts: 49
Location: United States
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| Posted: 21-Feb-2010 16:03 Post subject: Gunnery/Piloting Values vs Military Rank |
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Alright guys, thanks a bunch for your help! I'll try out the program and see what values I get.
_________________
Cheers,
CYBRN4CR "Cyber Enforcer"
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