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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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 Posted: 09-Jul-2009 17:45 Post subject: Comeuppance to a power player? |
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Things are slowly starting to settle down in the real world, and so I might possibly be getting my BTech group back together.
However, we're a little short on players.
There is one person we know who is indeed into RPGs, but she's a power player of such epic proportions that few people want to play with her. If she's running the show, she'll so completely unbalance everything to the point where only her NPCs can actually save the day. If she's a player, she'll min-max to an unholy degree.
If she does come in, I'm looking to rein her in.
As far as character creation goes, I always give my players two options: I can create a character for them (I can knock characters out in half an hour, but they have to take what I create) or they can sit down with me and create someone (which can take up to two hours given the MW3 rules set).
While I won't mess her over too badly with character creation, I will stick her in a vehicle or mech that is so wimpy or difficult to use she'll have to forgo her usual power player ways in order to survive.
Thoughts?
*****
Possible rides:
Mechs -
*FrankenHolland: This is a 3055 Hollander that has been stripped for parts and rebuilt so many times I honestly don't remember what armaments it even has anymore; IIRC, it's got an AC/5, some medium lasers, and an SRM 2. Presently it's just sitting around w/o a pilot, and so I can justify throwing her character in here.
*Hornet: The team's Order of Battle has a force recon team slotted, but only one mech. Hornets are fast enough for the recon role and have just enough firepower to technically count for "force." Thing is, the armor is so paper-thin that if she tries to fight things out she'll get shredded.
*3025 Blackjack: One of the mechs with the mobile fire support team is a Hammer; it can easily be moved to the force recon team and the Blackjack placed in the mobile fire team. It does have jump jets and does have twin AC/2s, but that's about all it's got; she'll have to sit back and snipe.
Aircraft
*Lucifer: The party completely lacks any sort of aerospace assets; they have a few helicopters, but that's it. The Lucifer is a fairly solid combat unit, and so it can serve as a multi-role job. However, its lack of an ejection seat means that she'll have to play it carefully.
*Guardian VSTOL: It'd give the party a combat fighter, but it can't go into space and its lone SRM 6 is pitifully weak against most other fighter craft.
Ground units
*APC: The party has several APCs which lack pilots. Even though the party doesn't have anywheres near enough infantry to field them all, what APCs are operational can be pressed into service as cargo transports or skirmishers.
*Motorcycle: The party captured a military-grade motorcycle that was being used to patrol outside a small OPFOR outpost. The motorcycle has a sidecar that's got an M-60 machine gun mounted to it.
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8072
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Jul-2009 20:31 Post subject: Re: Comeuppance to a power player? |
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| Kraken wrote: | | As far as character creation goes, I always give my players two options: I can create a character for them (I can knock characters out in half an hour, but they have to take what I create) or they can sit down with me and create someone (which can take up to two hours given the MW3 rules set). |
I would never play in any game where the DM created characters in that manner....
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Jul-2009 20:45 Post subject: Re: Comeuppance to a power player? |
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| chihawk wrote: | | Kraken wrote: | | As far as character creation goes, I always give my players two options: I can create a character for them (I can knock characters out in half an hour, but they have to take what I create) or they can sit down with me and create someone (which can take up to two hours given the MW3 rules set). |
I would never play in any game where the DM created characters in that manner.... |
Part of doing it myself is that I cheat and give them more potent characters than the rules are officially supposed to allow for. I've figured out a few loopholes within the rules to allow that.
Plus, thus far all of my players have enjoyed the role-playing aspect inherent in playing a character they didn't create.
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Jul-2009 21:14 Post subject: Comeuppance to a power player? |
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I've been role playing over 30 years, and I can safely say that your players are in the clear minority if they enjoy playing characters they didn't create.
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Jul-2009 21:42 Post subject: Comeuppance to a power player? |
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...which is why knocking down power-players is such an issue: everybody I've gamed with thus far is a role-player.
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Jul-2009 21:44 Post subject: Comeuppance to a power player? |
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i myself prefer to play a char i created but am fine playing a pregen. As for sitting with the DM if i gen a char, i'm fine as long as they more often then not allow me to do what i'd like.
As for the power player, be careful pigeon holing them so quickly. You should allow her some freedom and if she gets outta line during play then deal with it. You could do more harm then good otherwise. Just my opinion.
Of the options though, i'd use the Blackjack.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Jul-2009 21:54 Post subject: Comeuppance to a power player? |
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It's been established that if the players get out of line or otherwise get stupid during the course of the game then karma will backhand them at the earliest opportunity. In this case, she'll most likely want to sit and create the character and will most likely try to munchkin the thing. By the time everything is said and done, she'll have probably earned a junk ride anyway.
For example, one player once tried to turn his character into Leisure Suit Larry. His character had a thing for a female NPC who worked in the motor pool. Rather than take "no" for an answer (the plot line was starting to stall out; things needed to get going), he kept at it anyway.
This bit him in the tuckus.
By virtue of her being a female mechanic, she was used to dealing with very heavy tools and other bits of equipment. He wasn't. She tricked him into trying to "help her out" by moving some gear for her, and by the time everything was said and done he failed so many build checks that his character ended up in traction.
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Jul-2009 07:10 Post subject: Comeuppance to a power player? |
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The more I read about your GM style the more I'm glad there's no chance I'll be playing in a game you run.
There are lots of great resources online that will help you become a better GM. For your players' sake, I hope you search them out and read them.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 10-Jul-2009 13:03 Post subject: Comeuppance to a power player? |
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Well, munchkin characters can rarely be good at everything. Balanced challenges will make them shine at one time and suck on the other occasions. It's much worse if you have a player who sabotages game whenever he isn't the best.
We got tired of a Cha 18+ elf sorceress who either committed suicide, tried to trap / kill players or at least ally with whomever seemed to be against the group and posed to take over the world. The guy no doesn't play with us anymore.
If you are facing a player shortage, then try asking friends for their friends, who'd be interested or even announcements (try local game shop). It works.
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Jul-2009 14:35 Post subject: Re: Comeuppance to a power player? |
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| chihawk wrote: | The more I read about your GM style the more I'm glad there's no chance I'll be playing in a game you run.
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And miss out on the mutated, carnivorous, pack-hunting koala bears?
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Jul-2009 15:00 Post subject: Re: Comeuppance to a power player? |
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| Kraken wrote: | | chihawk wrote: | The more I read about your GM style the more I'm glad there's no chance I'll be playing in a game you run.
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And miss out on the mutated, carnivorous, pack-hunting koala bears? |
I use the same type creatures, only my players call them "Care Bears".
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Jul-2009 15:32 Post subject: Re: Comeuppance to a power player? |
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| chihawk wrote: | | Kraken wrote: | | chihawk wrote: | The more I read about your GM style the more I'm glad there's no chance I'll be playing in a game you run.
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And miss out on the mutated, carnivorous, pack-hunting koala bears? |
I use the same type creatures, only my players call them "Care Bears". |
The campaign is taking place on Caph right now.
In order to justify using a river delta map and the massive lake in the middle map, I made up some flavor stuff about how the lake is actually a crater formed by a dropship that crashed during one of the Succession Wars; the water flow, et al, were caused by debris pock-marking the ground.
The players insisted on parking where they were, hopping out of their mechs, and swimming down to personally examine the wreckage... nevermind the fact that they didn't have anything even resembling the kind of equipment needed to do a proper salvage job.
So I whipped those things up to "encourage" them to remain in their cockpits and keep moving.
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 10-Jul-2009 16:12 Post subject: Re: Comeuppance to a power player? |
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| chihawk wrote: | | Kraken wrote: | | chihawk wrote: | The more I read about your GM style the more I'm glad there's no chance I'll be playing in a game you run.
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And miss out on the mutated, carnivorous, pack-hunting koala bears? |
I use the same type creatures, only my players call them "Care Bears". |
They can take care of the party? 
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Oct-2009 21:48 Post subject: Comeuppance to a power player? |
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*bumping*
In the time since I last posted on this thread, I've redone things quite a bit with the campaign world.
The main faction that the players are with have a steady source for four 3025 era mechs: the Stinger, the Blackjack, the Warhammer, and the Archer.
If she insists on being a munch when I go to make her a character, she's getting the Blackjack. It's the hardest of the four to use properly, owing to the limitations of the AC/2s and the rather unpleasant heat curve. I figure that once she realizes all she can really do is sit back and plink at people she'll reconsider her way of doing things.
If she's being somewhat munchy, but within tolerable limits, I'll give her the Stinger. The party skews light anyway, and so a Stinger would fit right in. However, the mech is tiny in size compared to some of the things the party has been running into, and so she'd still have to strategize anyway.
The Archer and Warhammer would be saved for if she promises to be good or somehow she ends up getting enough points for a heavy. The Archer's limited ammo supply means that she'll have to make her shots count and learn how to work as part of a team; otherwise, that armor won't hold out forever. The Warhammer can dominate about a good third of the normal units encountered, but its rather wicked heat curve means beam-spamming is out of the question.
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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Centurion13
Federated Suns
Private
Joined: 27-Mar-2008 03:44
Posts: 11
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Dec-2009 03:06 Post subject: Comeuppance to a power player? |
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I used to worry about munchkins. Not anymore.
The group usually takes care of such people. But there are exceptions. We had a young man whose father was running the campaign. This kid's characters were inevitably secretive, sneaky and almost always ended up on the side of the bad guys, trying his best to screw the rest of the party. His father seemed helpless to stop it: whenever he tried to do something, the kid would self-destruct the character and start the whole cycle over again.
This situation is different. I don't worry about munchkins because I am never so desperate for a person to play that I will invite them in. I made my mind up to *that* back in 1984.
If you are concerned about the player's suitability for the game you wish to run, sit down with them and lay your cards out on the table. Explain that you've noticed their tendency to be a power player, and that it is absolutely detrimental to the game. If they want to play, they will have to rein that tendency in. Explain that you do not want to get into a personal pissing contest with them as it is, again, detrimental to the game. If at that point the prospective gamer still wants to participate, well and good. Watch them carefully.
Let them generate their own character and use that as a way to judge whether or not the prospective player is serious about leaving the power games behind. Do not force them to use a pregen and do not engage in the sort of subtle sabotage you've been planning. You're playing right into the power player's hands, dealing with them on their terms and on their turf. Keep in mind that the power player is counting on you to follow the rules while they sit up at night and think of ways to confound you. Remember, always remember that this is what that player is *really* there for - the clash of egos and the feeding therof.
Your game will quickly devolve from a friendly gathering of people who want a relaxing evening into a contest between egos, and it will quickly ruin your game. People will eventually find excuses not to play, and before you know it the game will collapse. The power player will move on to other games and feed their ego there. They don't care about your campaign and never did, other than as a means to an end.
Which is why I never allow them in. People who have not already burned the urge to power play out of their system are not going to change on your account. And no amount of devious planning by you will change that.
One more thing and I am done.
Ask yourself why you are doing this. Well, why are you? No, really. You present it as an opportunity to gain a player. That I understand. But then you went to great lengths to describe just how unsuitable this player would be for your game. That I don't understand, at least not in the context of adding a player who will increase everyone's enjoyment.
However, it makes perfect sense if it adds only to *your* enjoyment. And I must suppose that is the true goal you have in mind. How do I arrive at that somewhat uncomplimentary conclusion? I have only to look at the title of your topic. You have decided you are going to use your game - and by extension the people in it, who may be your friends - as a means of 'paying out' another player whose personal gaming habits you despise.
I don't like what power gamers do either. When I think of them at all, I feel pity for someone who's never really discovered what RPGs are about and in their need to feed their ego, never will. But what about this temptation to use your game to feed your *own* ego? Because really, aside from a wish to bring that errant player to justice, I can't see it as anything else. You have described to us in detail just how you will hobble that power player, grind their faces into the fact of their own powerlessness, and emerge triumphant. If they were to join the game and you did not know what they were like in advance, such moves might be considered 'just desserts' and the offending player gets what they deserve.
But you know. And you *still* want to try it.
That's not justice; it's revenge. The difference is simple - one is motivated by, and feeds, the ego. The other does not. In effect, you will have become just like that player, willing to sacrifice everything to 'teach them a lesson'.
Don't do it. Don't put the game or your friendships on the line for what amounts to revenge on a crappy player. Remember why you are really there, and remember that your fellow players trust you to make the right decision for everyone, not just yourself.
[Last edited by Centurion13 on 13-Dec-2009 11:16; edited 2 times in total]
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