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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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 Posted: 26-Feb-2006 20:03 Post subject: Saratoga: Rimworld Escort Carriers (suggestions please) |
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I just started playing around with HM Aero, and this is my first design, so take a look at it and tell me what I could do better.
BattleSpace Vessel Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: Saratoga
Tech: Inner Sphere / 2750
Vessel Type: WarShip
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set: BattleSpace
Mass: 450,000 tons
K-F Drive System: (Unknown)
Length: 571 meters
Sail Diameter: 1,005 meters
Power Plant: Standard
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
9 Heavy NPPC
24 Large Pulse Laser
3 NL35
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
The Saratoga was a design used by Amaris' Republican navy as an "escort
carrier" to battleships. The ship was originally designed during the 26th
century, and continued to see heavy use until the end of the war with the
SLDF.
==Capabilities:==
The Saratoga's speed and manuverability made it a difficult target for the
Star League's battlefleets, making up for its lackluster armament and armor.
The Saratoga class' primary offensive capability came from the regiment of
fighters carried on board. The ship was an exceptionally dangerous raider
because it could jump in-system at a pirate point, destroy a target with its
fighter compliment, and retreat at high speed. Smaller SLDF warships, such as
the Vincent, were extremely vulnerable to the Saratoga.
The design's one weakness was the amount of time required for fighter launch
and retrieval operations. If the vessel were surprised this could be a major
vulnerability. For this reason, it was standard procedure to maintain a
significant CAP at all times.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Saratoga
Mass: 450,000 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant, Drive & Control: 135,000.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive: Compact (Integrity = 10) 203,625.00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 4) 52.00
Structural Integrity: 94 42,300.00
Total Heat Sinks: 1,212 Double 648.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 12,240.00
Bridge, Controls, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 1,125.00
Fire Control Computers: .00
Food & Water: (98 days supply) 328.50
Hyperpulse Generator: 50.00
Armor Type: Standard (222 total armor pts) 419.00
Capital Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Fore: 41
Fore-Left/Right: 37/37
Aft-Left/Right: 37/37
Aft: 33
Cargo:
Bay 1: Fighters (108) with 8 doors 16,200.00
Cargo (6) 300.00
Cargo (1) 50.00
DropShip Capacity: 4 Docking Hardpoints 4,000.00
Grav Decks #1 - 4: (90-meter diameter) 200.00
Escape Pods: 113 (7 tons each) 791.00
Crew and Passengers:
68 Primary Engineers (71 suggested) 680.00
170 Secondary Engineers (179 suggested) 1,190.00
3 Pilots (3 suggested) 21.00
216 2nd Class Passengers 1,512.00
216 Bay Personnel .00
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Heavy NPPC Nose 45 45 45 45 675 9,000.00
6 Large Pulse Laser Nose 5 5 -- -- 60 42.00
3 Heavy NPPC L/RBS 45 45 45 45 1350 18,000.00
6 Large Pulse Laser L/RBS 5 5 -- -- 120 84.00
3 NL35 Aft 11 11 11 -- 156 2,100.00
6 Large Pulse Laser Aft 5 5 -- -- 60 42.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 2,421 449,999.50
Tons Left: .50
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 93,967,896,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 52,714
Cost per BV: 1,782,598.47
Weapon Value: 24,860 (Ratio = .47)
Damage Factors: SRV = 1,550; MRV = 1,532; LRV = 1,051; ERV = 420
Maintenance: Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 348,520
(105,268 Structure, 189,012 Life Support, 54,240 Weapons)
Support Points (SP) = 332,860 (96% of MPV)
BattleForce2: Not applicable
_________________
"The enemy's gate is down."
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 26-Feb-2006 21:34 Post subject: RE: Saratoga: Rimworld Escort Carriers (suggestions please) |
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Ok. Because warships are so big and because i\'m so lazy, i\'m just gonna post a counter design with an explination afterwards.
AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: Saratoga Escort Carrier
Tech: Inner Sphere / 2750
Vessel Type: WarShip
Rules: Level 2, Custom design
Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 450,000 tons
K-F Drive System: (Unknown)
Length: 571 meters
Sail Diameter: 1,005 meters
Power Plant: Standard
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Armor Type: Improved Ferro-aluminum
Armament:
12 Heavy NPPC
24 Large Pulse Laser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Saratoga Escort Carrier
Mass: 450,000 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant, Drive & Control: 135,000.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive: Compact (Integrity = 10) 203,625.00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 4) 52.00
Structural Integrity: 49 22,050.00
Total Heat Sinks: 1,470 Double 906.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 7,344.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 1,125.00
Fire Control Computers: .00
Food & Water: (182 days supply) 485.00
Hyperpulse Generator: 50.00
Armor Type: Improved Ferro-aluminum (295 total armor pts) 441.00
Capital Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Fore: 55
Fore-Left/Right: 49/49
Aft-Left/Right: 49/49
Aft: 44
Cargo:
Bay 1: Fighters (30) with 3 doors 4,500.00
Cargo (1) with 4 doors 6,000.00
Bay 2: Fighters (1+1) (30) with 3 doors 4,500.00
Cargo (1) with 4 doors 6,000.00
Bay 3: Small Craft (12) with 2 doors 2,400.00
Cargo (1) with 2 doors 2,400.00
Bay 4: Cargo (1) with 1 door 298.00
DropShip Capacity: 4 Docking Hardpoints 4,000.00
Grav Decks #1 - 6: (90-meter diameter) 300.00
Escape Pods: 46 (7 tons each) 322.00
Crew and Passengers:
50 Officers (50 minimum) 500.00
220 Crew (85 minimum) 1,540.00
32 Gunners (16 minimum) 224.00
60 2nd Class Passengers 420.00
50 Marine Battle Armor Troopers/Elementals 350.00
120 Bay Personnel .00
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Heavy NPPC Nose 30 30 30 30 450 6,000.00
2 Large Pulse Laser Nose 2(18) 2(18) -- -- 20 14.00
2 Large Pulse Laser Nose 2(18) 2(18) -- -- 20 14.00
2 Large Pulse Laser Nose 2(18) 2(18) -- -- 20 14.00
2 Heavy NPPC FL/R 30 30 30 30 900 12,000.00
2 Heavy NPPC FL/R 30 30 30 30 900 12,000.00
2 Large Pulse Laser L/RBS 2(18) 2(18) -- -- 40 28.00
2 Large Pulse Laser L/RBS 2(18) 2(18) -- -- 40 28.00
2 Large Pulse Laser L/RBS 2(18) 2(18) -- -- 40 28.00
2 Heavy NPPC Aft 30 30 30 30 450 6,000.00
2 Large Pulse Laser Aft 2(18) 2(18) -- -- 20 14.00
2 Large Pulse Laser Aft 2(18) 2(18) -- -- 20 14.00
2 Large Pulse Laser Aft 2(18) 2(18) -- -- 20 14.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (2.00%) 9,000.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 2,940 450,000.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 7,265,207,600 C-Bills
Battle Value: 56,560
Cost per BV: 128,451.34
Weapon Value: 30,191 (Ratio = .53)
Damage Factors: SRV = 1,866; MRV = 1,848; LRV = 1,300; ERV = 521
Maintenance: Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 306,536
(56,678 Structure, 181,962 Life Support, 67,896 Weapons)
Support Points (SP) = 344,826 (112% of MPV)
BattleForce2: Not applicable
Notes:
First I will just start with my pet pieves. I hate odd numbered weapon batteries or batteries larger then 4 on standard scale weapons. It just gives a really funky mental image and decreases weapon versatility. Likewise, unless the battery requires an odd number of Capital scale weapons do to rule limits, it looks funny mentally to have batteries of sizes other then: 1, 2, 3, and 5. Now you have a 3 gun battery but for this type of ship it just felt wrong to me.
In addition, I dislike super bays. Having your entire regiment of fighters in 1 bay is mentally funny to me. However, their is a sound tactical reason to split the bay: Critical hits. Instead of loosing all your fighter capacity in 1 hit, you now can take 2. Splitting them gives a cool mental image of fighters launching from both sides and attacking an enemy.
Now, all of those are just dislikes and hold little actual impact on a design.
So now i\'ll move on to real critiques. I\'ll start with the ships main focus: fighters. You say that the carrier should carry a regiment. Yours is carrying two. Remember, The IS has 2 fighters per lance. So if you go with a 3 company + command lance battalion, you get 20 fighters per battalion. 3 battalions is 60 fighters. So I cut the number down.
Next, as a carrier, you need shuttle craft. I added 12.
Next, as a carrier, you need lots and lots of cargo for your fighters. The general rule here at mordels is 200 tons of consumables per fighter and shuttle. I added the cargo in each bay.
I like the fuel level of your ship; however, you only have so much space for everything so i dropped it to 182 days at 1g burn. Your fighters each get 200 tons of consumables [fuel and munitions] so a large fuel load is no at critical.
Next, escape pods. A warship typically doesn\'t usually carry more then 50 percent escape pods. Especially a carrier as a large part of the crew are pilots with aircraft. Shuttles can carry personel also. Lastly, the sad fact is when the shooting starts, people die. So i reduced the amount and for a good image i made it an even number, which means each side gets half. lol.
Next, a warship should always carry 2 to 5 percent of its weight in spare parts. So i added it.
Next, i removed the extra rooms that you added for the fighter crew. Their rooms are included in the weight of the bay so i reduced the number. I then zeroed out the crew, added to required, and then doubled the number. I then added Marines equal to 10% total crew without marines.
Next, once the crew was figured i added food and water for 182 days.
I then added 2 more grav decks so that every crewmen gets 1 meter each. It seems like a good number.
I altered your weapons layout to come in line with my pet pieves and moved the broadside Capital Bays to the front-side arcs. This gives you a larger coverage on the NPPCs. I also replaced the aft NLs with NPPCs and added more DHS.
I then used the optimize armor tool to best configure the SI to Armor ratio for the remaining tonnage and used Improved Ferro-Aluminium. This gives you equivalent protection and a fraction of the weight with little or no cost increase.
And those are all of my suggestions.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 27-Feb-2006 18:17 Post subject: RE: Saratoga: Rimworld Escort Carriers (suggestions please) |
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Most of that makes good sense to me...its a Rim Worlds ship though, so there's no battlearmor.
I guess most of the 200 tons of consumables is fuel, right?
_________________
"The enemy's gate is down."
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Feb-2006 21:02 Post subject: RE: Saratoga: Rimworld Escort Carriers (suggestions please) |
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Quote:
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On 2006-02-27 18:17, mud wrote:
Most of that makes good sense to me...its a Rim Worlds ship though, so there's no battlearmor.
I guess most of the 200 tons of consumables is fuel, right?
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We never broke down the fuel to munitions ratio. We kept it a simple 200 tons for consumables. If you load up on energy beasts, then the space is fuel and parts; missile boats would be ammo, fuel, and parts; ect.
As for the Marines, I said Marines and not BA. Marines are just a security force of specially trained infantry. They repel boarders and handle MP duties just like the Marines on Navy ships today.
OMG, well i'll be horn swaggled. I did put BA instead of marines. Just place 50 Marines instead and add the 100 tons of free'd space for added cargo.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-Feb-2006 03:00 Post subject: RE: Saratoga: Rimworld Escort Carriers (suggestions please) |
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Quote:
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OMG, well i'll be horn swaggled. |
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ROFL! he said Horn Swaggled. God I havent heard that one in a while.
_________________
Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 28-Feb-2006 14:23 Post subject: RE: Saratoga: Rimworld Escort Carriers (suggestions please) |
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*SD searches through vocabulary, puts on one of his less understanding faces and mumbles*
I should stop reading obscure word combinations.. 
_________________
The dragon NEVER sleeps!
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Mar-2006 02:12 Post subject: RE: Saratoga: Rimworld Escort Carriers (suggestions please) |
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I just have one thing to say:
Level 3 = Can break launch door limits, which are retarded anyways 
I'd set it to level 3 just for that, and add 1 door for every 4-6 fighters, but thats just me. And I'm crazy. A bit more so than normal these days... but well I'll not get into that here cause its personal IRL ****!
_________________
Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Mar-2006 13:35 Post subject: RE: Saratoga: Rimworld Escort Carriers (suggestions please) |
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Quote:
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On 2006-03-01 02:12, ralgith wrote:
I just have one thing to say:
Level 3 = Can break launch door limits, which are retarded anyways
I'd set it to level 3 just for that, and add 1 door for every 4-6 fighters, but thats just me. And I'm crazy. A bit more so than normal these days... but well I'll not get into that here cause its personal IRL ****!
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i believe the launch limit is their for balance. However, it does have a real world application in the fact that modern carriers can still only launch so many fighters per minute because the launch strips and catapult use so much room. The launch bays on a warship is duel purpose in the it is both catapult and landing strip. When looked at that way, i can see an ok reason to limit the launch doors.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 08-Mar-2006 17:47 Post subject: RE: Saratoga: Rimworld Escort Carriers (suggestions please) |
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I can see a setup along the lines of BSG...where you have a lot more launch tubes than landing bays available. That makes tactical sense too. You want to be able to deploy in a hurry, while recovery can take more time, although that can hurt you too of course.
_________________
"The enemy's gate is down."
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 21-Mar-2006 01:39 Post subject: RE: Saratoga: Rimworld Escort Carriers (suggestions please) |
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ya. I modern day carrier cannot do an emergency jump to escape a supirior fleet. Like in the battle that stop the clans for the first time. Scramble the fighters to buy time to jump away.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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