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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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 Posted: 01-Jun-2005 08:16 Post subject: Design challenge! |
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Since I'm bored, I shall issue forth a challenge: design for me a fleet defense fighter, a fighter that dropships and warships can deploy at a moment's notice to intercept and destroy other fighters.
*Weapons must be predominantly long-ranged
*Speed should be above-average for its' weight
*Armor is secondary to weapon load
*Any weight class
*Level 2 tech is acceptable, but Level 1 is preferred
*XL engines are not allowed
*IS tech preferred, only use Clan tech if it's essential to the design
[ This Message was edited by: Warhammer: 3025 on 2005-06-02 13:25 ]
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Jun-2005 08:55 Post subject: RE: Design challenge! |
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Several questions:
On the weight issue, do you want a fighter from ALL of the weight classes then?
Is this to be a house specific fighter or one the whole IS would have?
Time frame for this fighter? Prior to 3028 or just after that time frame?
What is the limit on cost?
Any limits on fuel tonnage?
Can we mount external racks/hardpoints?
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 01-Jun-2005 09:25 Post subject: RE: Design challenge! |
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Quote:
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On 2005-06-01 08:55, Karagin wrote:
On the weight issue, do you want a fighter from ALL of the weight classes then?
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If you want to make multiple submissions, please feel free. I was just saying that I don't have any criteria on tonnage.
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Is this to be a house specific fighter or one the whole IS would have?
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Up to you.
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Time frame for this fighter? Prior to 3028 or just after that time frame?
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Make it the 3030s.
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What is the limit on cost?
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Price is secondary to effectiveness.
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Any limits on fuel tonnage?
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Use your best judgement.
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Can we mount external racks/hardpoints?
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Yes.
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 01-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 1138
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Jun-2005 12:47 Post subject: RE: Design challenge! |
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Quote:
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On 2005-06-01 09:25, Warhammer: 3025
Make it the 3030s.
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How does that bear on level 2 weapons?
And do standard PPCs count as long ranged where you're concerned?
_________________
"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close semblance to the first."
- Attributed to General Aleksandr Kerensky
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 01-Jun-2005 12:52 Post subject: RE: Design challenge! |
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Quote:
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On 2005-06-01 12:47, StarRaven wrote:
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On 2005-06-01 09:25, Warhammer: 3025
Make it the 3030s.
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How does that bear on level 2 weapons?
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I figured that some level 2 stuff had resurfaced by the late 3030s. If I was wrong, go ahead and pick your own design date.
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And do standard PPCs count as long ranged where you're concerned?
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Yes.
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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Delta
Lyran Alliance
Leutnant
Joined: 11-Dec-2004 00:00
Posts: 635
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| Posted: 01-Jun-2005 12:53 Post subject: RE: Design challenge! |
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If its a level one design, im guessing that he means medium or longer, otherwise your making a LRM barge... 
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 01-Jun-2005 12:57 Post subject: RE: Design challenge! |
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"Long Range" weapons: PPC (both kinds), AC/2 (all kinds), AC/5 (all kinds), LRMs, ER-Large Laser, Gauss Rifle, LB-X AC/10.
[ This Message was edited by: Warhammer: 3025 on 2005-06-01 12:59 ]
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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Delta
Lyran Alliance
Leutnant
Joined: 11-Dec-2004 00:00
Posts: 635
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| Posted: 01-Jun-2005 13:13 Post subject: RE: Design challenge! |
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Heres my 3.
Level One Tech
AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: Dagger Inteceptor
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3030
Vessel Type: Aerospace Fighter
Rules: Level 1, Standard design
Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 50 tons
Length: 16 meters
Power Plant: 300 Fusion
Safe Thrust: 8
Maximum Thrust: 12
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
1 PPC
2 Medium Laser
1 Small Laser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Dagger Inteceptor
Mass: 50 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant: 300 Fusion 19.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 8
Maximum Thrust: 12
Structural Integrity: 8 .00
Total Heat Sinks: 16 Single 6.00
Fuel: 5.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters: 3.00
Armor Type: Standard (120 total armor pts) 7.50
Standard Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Nose: 40
Left/Right Wings: 30/30
Aft: 20
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 PPC Nose 10 10 -- -- 10 7.00
1 Medium Laser RW 5 -- -- -- 3 1.00
1 Medium Laser LW 5 -- -- -- 3 1.00
1 Small Laser Aft 3 -- -- -- 1 .50
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 17 50.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 2,718,438 C-Bills
Battle Value: 905
Cost per BV: 3,003.8
Weapon Value: 1,240 (Ratio = 1.37)
Damage Factors: SRV = 20; MRV = 7; LRV = 0; ERV = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 8, Armor/Structure: 3 / 0
Damage PB/M/L: 2/1/-, Overheat: 0
Class: FM; Point Value: 9
Level 2
AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: Dagger Inteceptor MKII
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3052
Vessel Type: Aerospace Fighter
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 50 tons
Length: 16 meters
Power Plant: 300 Fusion
Safe Thrust: 8
Maximum Thrust: 12
Armor Type: Ferro-aluminum
Armament:
1 ER PPC
4 Medium Laser
1 Small Laser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Dagger Inteceptor MKII
Mass: 50 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant: 300 Fusion 19.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 8
Maximum Thrust: 12
Structural Integrity: 8 .00
Total Heat Sinks: 14 Double 4.00
Fuel: 5.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters: 3.00
Armor Type: Ferro-aluminum (134 total armor pts) 7.50
Standard Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Nose: 44
Left/Right Wings: 34/34
Aft: 22
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 ER PPC Nose 10 10 10 -- 15 7.00
2 Medium Laser RW 5 -- -- -- 6 2.00
2 Medium Laser LW 5 -- -- -- 6 2.00
1 Small Laser Aft 3 -- -- -- 1 .50
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 28 50.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 3,102,188 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,234
Cost per BV: 2,513.93
Weapon Value: 1,457 (Ratio = 1.18)
Damage Factors: SRV = 30; MRV = 7; LRV = 3; ERV = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 8, Armor/Structure: 3 / 0
Damage PB/M/L: 3/1/1, Overheat: 0
Class: FM; Point Value: 12
Clan
AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: Jagger Interceptor
Tech: Clan / 3052
Vessel Type: Aerospace Fighter
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 70 tons
Length: 19 meters
Power Plant: 350 Fusion
Safe Thrust: 7
Maximum Thrust: 11
Armor Type: Ferro-aluminum
Armament:
2 Medium Pulse Laser
2 ER PPC
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Jagger Interceptor
Mass: 70 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant: 350 Fusion 29.50
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 7
Maximum Thrust: 11
Structural Integrity: 7 .00
Total Heat Sinks: 19 Double 9.00
Fuel: 4.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters: 3.00
Armor Type: Ferro-aluminum (163 total armor pts) 8.50
Standard Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Nose: 57
Left/Right Wings: 42/42
Aft: 22
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Medium Pulse Laser Nose 7 7 -- -- 8 4.00
1 ER PPC RW -- -- -- -- 15 6.00
1 ER PPC LW -- -- -- -- 15 6.00
1 C.A.S.E. Equipment Body .00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 38 70.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 4,662,675 C-Bills
Battle Value: 2,373
Cost per BV: 1,964.89
Weapon Value: 1,942 (Ratio = .82)
Damage Factors: SRV = 42; MRV = 35; LRV = 8; ERV = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 7, Armor/Structure: 4 / 0
Damage PB/M/L: 5/5/3, Overheat: 0
Class: FM; Point Value: 24
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5621
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Jun-2005 07:01 Post subject: RE: Design challenge! |
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AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: Aurora SA-23E
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type: Aerospace Fighter
Rules: Level 2, Custom design
Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 70 tons
Frame: Wangker-Mitchell-Hyundine Aurora MK I
Length: 10 meters
Power Plant: Magna 350 Light Fusion
Safe Thrust: 7
Maximum Thrust: 11
Armor Type: Durallex Light / Durallex Super Medium Ferro-aluminum
Armament:
2 Johnston Parti-Cannon / Parti-Kill Heavy Cannon PPC
4 BlazeFire Longshot / RAMtech 1500Z ER Medium Laser
Manufacturer: Wangker Aerospace / Lockheed/CBM Corporation
Location: Axton / Gibbs
Communications System: Wunderland Fighter Series 80 / O/P Air 1500
Targeting & Tracking System: Wunderland Raptores 3 / N&D Longreach R2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
In 3067, the Civil War between the Federated Sun and Lyran Alliance had
recently come to an end, and the two nations who had just recently been Sister
nations sought to mend the wounds formed between them. The Aurora Project was
one such attempt whose results are still unclear.
==Capabilities:==
In 3068, both the Steiner and Davion nations stood on the edge of ruin as
armies loyal to both from each side of the divide limped home ravaged beyond
what even the Clan Invasion had been capable of causing. These worn and
ragged units need both replacement of men and machines. Efforts initially
concentrated on replacing the losses in the Battlemech Regiments but
eventually found its way into the Navy and system defense. In a gesture of
friendship and peace, Regent Yvonne Steiner-Davion and Archon Peter
Steiner-Davion agreed to petition companies within each of there nations for
the contract to co-develop and produce a next generation Fleet defense fighter
codenamed: Aurora. In the end, twelve companies came forward as contract
winners and development began at the Lockheed/CBM Corporation plant on Gibbs
in early 3068. By the end of 3068, the two lead developers Wangker Aerospace
and Lockheed/CBM Corporation were testing the first prototypes in orbit around
Gibbs.
The Aurora prototypes use materials almost exclusive to each nation
mounted on the same Wangker-Mitchell-Hyundine Aurora MK I chassis, but these
exclusive materials are all similar in function and purpose and create an
outstanding fighter. However, there was two pieces of technology that
required the agreement of the Regent and Archon, and the strict negotiation of
contracts for its use: the Light Fusion engine from Lyran space and the
Advanced Targeting Computer from the Federated Sun. The agreements have been
signed and result in the Lyran Alliance's Defiance Motors producing a new line
of Magna 350 Light Fusion engines that will be shipped to Gibbs and Axton, and
the Federated Sun's NAIS producing a new line of Targeting Computers that will
be shipped to Axton and Gibbs.
At the heart of the Aurora is an impressive array of weapons that is lead
by a pair of conventional Particle Projection Cannons that allow for accurate
and powerful long range barrages. These cannons are capable of crippling
smaller fighters in one hit and are even capable of damaging the armor
platting of Warships even if such damage is very minor. Backing up the twin
PPCs are four Extended Range Medium Lasers, two facing forward and two facing
aft, that offer the Aurora additional firepower at medium to short ranges
during dog fights. However, the fighter is not capable of venting all the
excess heat these weapons produce and limits the pilot to firing only his
forward or aft lasers in addition to the PPC or risk system abnormalities.
All of these weapon systems are feed through the latest fire control and
targeting computers available and guided by the Davion Advanced Targeting
Computer that results in a targeting accuracy unsurpassed by no other within
the Inner Sphere.
In addition to this impressive array of weapons, the Aurora uses some of
the latest design techniques and components to achieve the highest degree of
functionality. At the heart of this is the Magna 350 Light Fusion engine that
makes the Aurora capable of speeds up to 5.50 G's while still allowing mass
for armor and weapons. In an effort to maximize this speed potential, the
Aurora was designed with bulky heavily armored sections, which give more
protection the most fighters it's size, designed for the optimal dispersal of
maneuvering thrusters but at the expense of lift generation. This means that
the Aurora is incapable of atmospheric flight but is notably more agile and
maneuverable then other Aerospace fighters. This gives an edge to the Aurora
in its assigned roll as a space defense fleet support fighter. In addition to
the odd design choice, the Aurora is equipped with small fuel tank that allows
it to engage aggressors but not purse them for extended periods of time, and
the pilot cockpit uses an unusual vertical cockpit in which the pilot stands
and pilots the craft. It is believed that with its short range and roll as
fleet defense fighter that the benefits of decreased susceptibility to high G
effects out weights any fatigue a pilot may experience using the unusual
setup.
The Aurora is an impressive and deadly craft that will serve the Navies
of the Federated Sun and Lyran Alliance well. However, it is a costly vehicle
that depends upon the continued shipment of components from factories in
nations that had very recently been at war with one another. If the Aurora
Project serves its intended goal and manages to heal the divide between the
two nations even slightly then the fleets of the other great houses and
pirates must be wary, but if relations do not improve, the Aurora could find
itself quickly being recalled very quickly.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Aurora SA-23E
Mass: 70 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant: 350 Light Fusion 22.50
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 7
Maximum Thrust: 11
Structural Integrity: 7 .00
Total Heat Sinks: 15 Double 5.00
Fuel: 3.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters: 3.00
Armor Type: Ferro-aluminum (242 total armor pts) 13.50
Standard Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Nose: 82
Left/Right Wings: 60/60
Aft: 40
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 PPC Nose 10 10 -- -- 20 14.00
2 ER Medium Laser Nose 5 5 -- -- 10 2.00
2 ER Medium Laser Aft 5 5 -- -- 10 2.00
1 Targeting Computer 5.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 40 70.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 9,175,005 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,769
Cost per BV: 5,186.55
Weapon Value: 2,735 (Ratio = 1.55)
Damage Factors: SRV = 29; MRV = 25; LRV = 0; ERV = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 7, Armor/Structure: 6 / 0
Damage PB/M/L: 3/3/-, Overheat: 0
Class: FM; Point Value: 18
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 02-Jun-2005 07:57 Post subject: RE: Design challenge! |
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SWL-1K Swallow
IS light aerospace fighter level 1
Mass: 30t
SI: 10
Power Plant: 240 fusion 11.5t
MP: 10/15
Heat sinks: single 10 0t
Fuel: 240 pts 3t
Cockpit: 3t
Armor: standard 64 pts 4t
Armor: 20/15/14
Weapons Location Mass
PPC Nose 7t
3 Laser (S) Nose 1.5t
Swallow is small mass produced interceptor
that first appeared in 3030 on Luthien Aero
Show and now its generally available even in
periphery states. Mixing respectable speed
with relatively heavy gun and some backup
light lasers. Armor is very light, but Swallow
relies on it's speed and weapons range to
avoid damage.
Many field variants appeared since the
design introduction some remove lasers for
more armor or move them to protect aft
section, some replace the PPC with various
large lasers (pulse lasers are quite popular
for accuracy) or missile launchers.
Latest variant of this aging design features
double heat sinks, ER large laser four small
rocket launchers and six tons of armor. There
are some rumors about High tech variant
with upgraded engine and modern composite
armor, but nothing has been confirmed yet.
EDIT: I made it 5 tons lighter.
[ This Message was edited by: Sleeping Dragon on 2005-06-03 02:04 ]
_________________
The dragon NEVER sleeps!
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 02-Jun-2005 13:17 Post subject: RE: Design challenge! |
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Excellent work, guys. 
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 02-Jun-2005 14:20 Post subject: RE: Design challenge! |
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I'm just a little puzzled by the design specifications. Why should interceptor have long range weapons? In my opinion interceptor is fast enough to catch its prey (anything faster than recon craft) and equipped with short range weapons that can overwhelm the opposition that is unable to escape, relying on superior maneuverability to avoid enemy big guns. Fuel capacity is sufficient just for engaging the enemy making few evasive maneuvers (destroying the enemy in the process), and returning home (technically better armed Sparrowhawk).
_________________
The dragon NEVER sleeps!
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 02-Jun-2005 16:38 Post subject: RE: Design challenge! |
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It's a fleet defender. This particular interceptor is intended to be launched at a moment's notice to scramble and kill incoming enemy fighters before they reach and threaten the fleet itself. The best way to do that is to make sure the enemy fighters never get anywhere near the fleet: to kill them as soon as possible, as far away as possible.
For a good example, look at the US Navy's F-14 Tomcat. It can carry up to six AIM-54 Phoenix missiles, and is (if I remember correctly) the only Navy fighter that does so. The Phoenix has a range of over 100 Nautical Miles (180+ Kilometers). The obvious design philosophy is to kill the enemy before he gets near the fleet and is able to launch any missiles of his own.
[ This Message was edited by: Warhammer: 3025 on 2005-06-02 16:40 ]
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 01-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 1138
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Jun-2005 19:10 Post subject: RE: Design challenge! |
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I agree with Dragon.
While the F-14 and the Phoenix missile are used exactly as you describe them, BattleTech (AeroTech) has no way of implementing that. In the absence of an extreme long range weapon, the best interceptor becomes just as Sleeping Dragon says - fast, with a strong close in punch. Long range weapons simply can't deal the sort of damage that a bunch of medium lasers can.
_________________
"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close semblance to the first."
- Attributed to General Aleksandr Kerensky
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 02-Jun-2005 19:42 Post subject: RE: Design challenge! |
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Look at Vagabond's design. Twin PPCs and a Targeting Computer allow the fighter massive long-range damage potential, and if the entire squadron concentrates their fire (which they should), then the enemy will be short-lived indeed.
Kudos for thinking of a Light engine, by the way.
[ This Message was edited by: Warhammer: 3025 on 2005-06-02 19:42 ]
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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