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Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
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 Posted: 31-Dec-2004 08:00 Post subject: Worst thing to happen to Battletech |
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A wierd topic, but one i havent seen covered,
what in your opinion has affected your battletech experience for the worst, or detracts the most from either gaming or the universe itself?
I have tried to pick from a variety of topics, all of which i have either heard people flaming or have flamed myself.
Just pick the one which narcs you the most. Feel free to add your own
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Constant exposure to dangers will breed contempt for them-Seneca
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 31-Dec-2004 09:59 Post subject: RE: Worst thing to happen to Battletech |
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I put other.
The worst that I feel has happened isn't any of those things. Personally, I don't like Dark Age. So I just ignore it. I have nothing against Stackpole. He writes BTech fiction. I like BTech fiction. If I thought I could do a better job of it you would see a line of novels with my stamp on it. Clans? No. Ithink it adds something. But again if you don't like the clans then you can play without the clans. Any newer technologies can also be played without as you like or don't like it.
What really detrracts from the wonderful game of BattleTech in my opinion is the real world. How many people do you know that had to stop playing for one reason or another? Or moved away? Or that you had to stop playing? I have played with 14 people over the years who played and liked BTech. Right now I know where 2 are. One lives 30 minutes from me and has a schedule as bad as mine if not worse for playing anything let alone a table hogging long lasting game such as BTech. The other lives 2 hours away and has neither the time nor the desire to "waste" his time on the game. So all the little in game plot lines and stuff like that are minor and ignorable. The real world cannot be ignored nor can it be suppressed long without consequences, sometimes bad ones.
Life sucks, then you take an Atlas down with a Locust and all is well. 
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If ignorance is bliss, then why are you so miserable?
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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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| Posted: 31-Dec-2004 11:17 Post subject: RE: Worst thing to happen to Battletech |
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Dark Age is not even a blip, you can avoid it,
DHS,DHS,DHS, did I say Double Heat Sinks,
Changed the game completely. Other things shifted it but this was a comet hitting the planet type smashing. Now you have 20 heat sinks, with what draw back or cost??? Anyone that says 3 crit spaces if smoking cow dung. Most of the HS go on the engine.
So what happens? Heat is not longer one of the controlling factors of the game, Laser boats are king (and should be with this equipment), Cool running Mechs that are specialists, Pulse lasers are easy to use, Engine hit is a nuisance not a mortal wound, and o yeah, 3 crit spaces sucked up to protect vital ammo or XL slots.
I know why they did that, because 1.5HS just does not work.
AWAD- At least XL takes up lots of space, easier to shut down, and are expensive as all hell
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Dec-2004 12:26 Post subject: RE: Worst thing to happen to Battletech |
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On 2004-12-31 11:17, AWAD wrote:
Dark Age is not even a blip, you can avoid it,
DHS,DHS,DHS, did I say Double Heat Sinks,
Changed the game completely. Other things shifted it but this was a comet hitting the planet type smashing. Now you have 20 heat sinks, with what draw back or cost??? Anyone that says 3 crit spaces if smoking cow dung. Most of the HS go on the engine.
So what happens? Heat is not longer one of the controlling factors of the game, Laser boats are king (and should be with this equipment), Cool running Mechs that are specialists, Pulse lasers are easy to use, Engine hit is a nuisance not a mortal wound, and o yeah, 3 crit spaces sucked up to protect vital ammo or XL slots.
I know why they did that, because 1.5HS just does not work.
AWAD- At least XL takes up lots of space, easier to shut down, and are expensive as all hell
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Yes DHS changed the game, but they didn't ruin it.
DHS have for the IS, 3 crit spaces, that is something that really takes away from the use of them IMHO. With the use of LBX, SRMS and other crit seeking weapons, the DHS one IS mechs become a liability, just as the XL engine does. Plus the DHS does raise the cost of the mech more so then the use of normal heat sinks. And for all of their wonderful abilites, they eat crit spaces and thus sometime it's better to go with singles and have to watch what you fire to get a better mech.
If you can cram all of them into the engien on a mech then they are like gold, but alas that is not always the case. Their weight can be listed as an area that is on the odd side but overall they add a level to the game, that forces folks to think tactics over fire power. I have yet to see a mech that is built with normal thoughts and such be a major menance while using DHS. Now if you want to look at the munchkin uber mechs that seem to be a dime a dozen, then yes I would agree that DHS has become an issue and a problem, just as the pulse/targ combo has become a problem. One reason I try to stay away from convention games that allow the players to bring their own designs since it all ways end up being a Clan tech pulse targ combo that wins or something along those lines.
One advantage for DHS is to allow some of the older mechs to gain the ability to use their weapons more. I have put DHS on 3025 Warhammers and Madauders and found them to be very effective and surprising for those not expecting them to be toughter then they were.
Also I think it comes down to play style and personal taste. I know you can use a level 1 mech to beat a level 2 mech, and that takes skill and know the limits and know the mech itself. So really if you want to beat DHS on mechs use some creative tactics and force the person to become to confident and thus prone to push the limits and they will end up doing something silly and hand you the perfect chance to end their day with a blown up mech.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 31-Dec-2004 15:12 Post subject: RE: Worst thing to happen to Battletech |
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I have to go with other here, too, and for the same reasons as above.
Growing up does the most to kill the game. You can ignore what you don't like, it's a game after all, but food and shelter kind of put a crimp in that.
An unbalanced game is not a killer. As the GM, I try to make the game as difficult as possible, yet still be winnable. Uber mechs are great for this, so the players have to think and plan.
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"Politics is the Art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing the problem, and applying the wrong solution."
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 01-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 1138
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Dec-2004 17:24 Post subject: RE: Worst thing to happen to Battletech |
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DHS do make for a major change in the way the game plays. But I don't necessarily think that that's a bad thing; just different.
I was reading the books for a few years before I got into the actual game, so the universe has a lot of importance to me. If the universe weren't as good, I probably wouldn't have bothered with the game. So Dork Age is probably the worst thing to happen to BTech, as far as I'm concerned. Most of you are old timers, but for me the Clans and level 2 tech were always around. They've really never bothered me much. But Dork Age completely changed the universe, and made it just terrible. None of the basics of the Dork Age fit with the history of the universe; none of them. If Dork Age had been the storyline attached to BattleTech, I doubt I'd've wanted anything to do with the game.
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 01-Jan-2005 22:45 Post subject: RE: Worst thing to happen to Battletech |
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Hmm.
I think the worst thing to happen to Battletech, as in to the publisher, was Harmony Gold's lawsuit. I sometimes wonder, if it weren't for the cost and pressure of that lawsuit, if the plotline for the novels would have gone better and perhaps FASA might not have written itself into a corner, resulting in its downfall.
Losing the unseen mechs took a lot out of the game for us oldtimers, costing customer base and I think, made the game less attractive to newcomers. I think it hurt mini sales, novel sales, etc.
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DrmChsr0
Clan Jade Falcon
Warrior
Joined: 02-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 3
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| Posted: 02-Jan-2005 08:51 Post subject: RE: Worst thing to happen to Battletech |
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Well........Dark Age isn't the worst thing to happen to Battletech. It brought me back into the world of Battlemech action, and the Battletech universe in general.
I'm not too sure what's the worst thing to happen to Battletech, but I think it's because of the buyover of FASA Corp. by M$ and WizKids. M$' recent business plans for Battletech(shifting focus to the XBOX) and WizKids turning it into a clicky game, killing off all the old characters(except for Victor-Steiner Davion, but he's dead in terms of plot) and some godawful designs for 'Mechs may have sent Battletech into decline.
I'm not saying everything's due to Wizkids(though a lot of the blame can be put on them) but rather, a complicated mix of events dragged down Battletech as a whole.
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1917
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| Posted: 02-Jan-2005 12:40 Post subject: RE: Worst thing to happen to Battletech |
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Quote:
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killing off all the old characters(except for Victor-Steiner Davion, but he's dead in terms of plot) |
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Well, Katherine Steiner-Davion appears to also still be alive, and Sun-Tzu Liao has been debated as well...
Also, see the novel Scorpion Jar...
Ruger
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Moonlapse Vertigo
Clan Goliath Scorpion
Star Captain
Joined: 02-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 207
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| Posted: 03-Jan-2005 10:29 Post subject: RE: Worst thing to happen to Battletech |
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| I am with StarRaven, the universe and storyline is important to me, so I'd say the general confusingness and non-interestingness of the current storylines. (Including but certainly not limited to the Dark Age.)
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Ronin
ComStar
Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 907
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Jan-2005 13:30 Post subject: RE: Worst thing to happen to Battletech |
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I voted for Dark Age because of it's effects on the storyline: for me, it's just too much to accept without Battletech losing it's feel. And the novels seem to be lacking.
I do agree with the points made for "other", though. The Harmony Gold lawsuit certainly put a serious hurt on things, the full extent of which we can only speculate. Blaming Dark Age and etc. on a bunch of lawyers should feel refreshing somehow, but it doesn't change the reality of how things are now.
Most of all, I agree with the real life factors. Growing up and having to spend income on necessities certainly is a factor, but more critical is the loss of a base of players and lack of time to spend on the game. On the odd chances that I do fnd people that are interested in gaming, limited time often causes us to default to the "standards" that everyone knows, such as D&D. My current Battletech action consists of (re)reading Battlecorps and other Battletech fiction, participating in chihawk's PBEMs (and SoCoL when it gets going), and hanging out here at Mordel's. Real life has even cut me off from my minis and manuals for the time being.
Sorry, I don't know where I was going there 
In short, I agree that real life has a large impact on Battletech.
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DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
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| Posted: 03-Jan-2005 14:07 Post subject: RE: Worst thing to happen to Battletech |
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I think Ronin hit the nail on the head. One of the appeals for Battletech, for me at least, was the storylines as well as the Big Guns That Hold A Lot Of Bullets.
Going with the click format stripped alot of the fun away from things. 'okay, joe, I did two ckicls of damage' just doesnt have the same flavor or impact as 'okay, joe, I hit the ammo stored in your left arm and blew it apart.' The game of Chess has been reduced to rock-paper-scissors.
Its not a bad format. As Ive said, for a quick and dirty format, its rather impressive, and lends itself well to pick up games just about anywhere. No need to haul around piles of recordsheets, stacks of hex-maps, and tomes of rulebooks.
But destroying the storyline for a 'fresh start' really killed the experience. Its a sign of poor planning when you explain the occurance or reason behind something as 'oh, it just happens...uhh....this way. Yeah, thats the ticket.' Now, Im a little behind on the storyline, granted, but if the WoBies have Terra why the hell would they declare a jyhad against the IS and Clans? Where are they getting the manpower and resources for this undertaking? Why havent the IS people or the Clans taken more direct action? The HPGs went down...uhh...so nobody knows whats going on....ummmm....they just have enough people to fight everyone....yeah, thats it. Right.
The Harmony Gold suit didnt help FASA (Praise FASA!!....sorry.) but the conversion to clickywarrior and the absolute annihilation of the storyline was just the final nail in the coffin.
Sorry about the rant, the nyQuil dregs are still sloshing in my system. 
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Rick Raisley
HeavyMetal
MechMeister
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 112
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Jan-2005 20:00 Post subject: RE: Worst thing to happen to Battletech |
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You didn't include "None of the above" (I don't consider that the same as Other). I don't think that /any/ of those things are bad, far from it. 3025 only is great. Clan only is great. Level 3 is great.
It's all good. It's all BattleTech!
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Rick
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rick@heavymetalpro.com
www.heavymetalpro.com
Home of HeavyMetal Software
Official Software for Classic BattleTech
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Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 04-Jan-2005 06:50 Post subject: RE: Worst thing to happen to Battletech |
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Quote:
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On 2005-01-03 20:00, Rick Raisley wrote:
You didn't include "None of the above" (I don't consider that the same as Other). I don't think that /any/ of those things are bad, far from it. 3025 only is great. Clan only is great. Level 3 is great.
It's all good. It's all BattleTech!
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Good point, nice view as well, personally i do not have any problems with the above. I do not like what the dark age has done. But its like the star wars prequels.
Dark age jumped into the middle of nowhere in terms of chronology (much like episode 1) and therefore is hard for fans to follow. It was only after episode 2 and soon 3 that people have understood and therefore appreciated episode one more.
The moral of this story? Give us some novels (and more importantly scenario packs  ) on the Jihad! It just might make Dark age make more sense as the storyline is far from clear.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Jan-2005 22:49 Post subject: RE: Worst thing to happen to Battletech |
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I think it has been a combination of things. First FASA's lackluster publishing schedule, the fact that they had poor proofing and or editing of their products, but you could live with that in the short run.
Then things like poor businees choices with the computer game Mechwarrior for quick cash. And then the lawsuit with Harmony Gold over the art to some of the mechs, to the over all not so great customer relations with the fans.
Then we hear FASA is going broke, can't pay writers, lost their star author, tried to replace him and that didn't work 100%. Then they get bought out, rumors abound, then KABOOM! here is this game called MWDA, it's set in the future, and oh here is what happens and so for some the game lost meaning since you already know what is going to happen. Add to this a storyline that well doesn't seem to really be going anywhere, another hidden army, this time with massive mechs and warships and wait no one has a clue about it and every single house and private intell group misses the signs etc...I can see why a lot of folks bailed or felt they couldn't support the game any more.
Then add to it that a large part of the fan base of BT has grown up, gotten married and for the most part had to put the games aside as the daily work and family part takes the time they could once spend playing BT. I know that some have managed to get their kids or spouses involved, but not all of them have been so successful.
There are a lot of factors that can be called the worse thing to happen to the game, some would say the Clans, others would say higher tech, others would say MWDA, and some would say plot line etc...the list is long and varied.
I think it's combination of things and when added together they all have a part in pushing the game around in different directions and we have what we have. I will say that Randal has done an excellent job of improving a lot of the old FASA issues and seems very set on keeping the current drive to improve both product and quiality a very important aspect and that I think can help over come some of the other issues.
But no matter what we all have the game as we knew and know it and we can all enjoy it no matter what. Why else would be here or at Rick's website or Sarna or CBT or BTU or any of the other sites if we didn't find something enjoyable about the game? ANd where else can we meet friendly and helpful folks who can turn into life long friends? I can't think of but a few other places and even those are limited.
So no matter what was or is the worst thing to happen to BT, the game of big robots blasting each other to spare parts is still there.
[ This Message was edited by: Karagin on 2005-01-07 08:09 ]
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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