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bladewind
Free Rasalhague Republic
Major General
Joined: 02-Oct-2004 00:00
Posts: 1054
Location: Singapore
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 Posted: 11-Oct-2004 03:54 Post subject: Whats up with the XL engines ?? (alittle OOC here) |
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after sifting through the massive TROs here, i found out that many of the custom battlemechs all use XL engines.
In my Very humble opinion, i feel that XL engines actually reduce the effectiveness of an assault or 75 ton mechs.
Sure u save weight and gain more stuff in the process but u just turned an anvil into a beer can. Arent assault mechs suppose to take the beating while the mediums and heavies do the killing ? Most people seem to design Assault mechs around firepower and forgot about reliability and using a silly XL engine on an assualt or heavy is begging to be toasted early. Just a rant 
P.S. I have a sick interest in mechs that are under 15 million C-bills  Too bad most people dont care about cost  even the standard TRO heavy to assaults mechs after 3050 are like 15 - 25 mil C-Bills. DOes not make sense sometime.
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Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
Joined: 04-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 976
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 11-Oct-2004 06:11 Post subject: RE: Whats up with the XL engines ?? (alittle OOC here) |
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Don't worry too much about it.
Most of the folks here aren't in favour of using XL engines too often either.
IMO, XLs are just dandy for light and medium's. They ARE going to fall arpart anyway, so might as well pack them full of weapons to hurt others first.
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 11-Oct-2004 07:51 Post subject: RE: Whats up with the XL engines ?? (alittle OOC here) |
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Have a look at the new mods of a lot of the classics I just posted. I've got a Wolverine, a couple Locusts, an Archer...I think there's a few others too. Not an XL engine in the lot; not double heat sinks.
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"The enemy's gate is down."
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 01-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 1138
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Oct-2004 08:05 Post subject: RE: Whats up with the XL engines ?? (alittle OOC here) |
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I'll generally agree with you. XLs are good for mediums and lights. Of course, lighter lights tend to disintegrate when you hit them, but they'll almost be doing that anyways. An assault 'Mech has a better chance of surviving for longer if it's got a standard engine. But a 'Mech with an XL engine will generally have more firepower, meaning it will destroy the enemy faster. Just look at the tonnage a BattleMaster loses to its engine. Now look at what the Templar can carry. Big difference. But I think that it really balances out, firepower or survivability. Of course, slower assaults can pack both.
Also, some assaults (Berserker) only work right with a 400 rate engine or thereabouts. You can only do that with an XL, because you can't afford a 50 ton engine. I think it depends on what you're 'Mech's supposed to do.
I'd generally rather put a standard engine in an assault if I can, but I'd put in an XL if it would let the 'Mech carry the loadout for which it is intended.
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 11-Oct-2004 08:52 Post subject: RE: Whats up with the XL engines ?? (alittle OOC here) |
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The key is that assault 'mechs need to be fairly slow if they want the massive weapon loadout.
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Oct-2004 08:55 Post subject: RE: Whats up with the XL engines ?? (alittle OOC here) |
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Another prime example is the Charger. The concept behind the Charger was that House Kurita wanted a fast assault mech. Well, the engine took up so much tonnage that the Charger was left with only 5 small lasers as its armament.
House Laio got ahold of a number of Chargers, and gave them smaller engines. The weight savings allowed them to arm their Chargers with an AC/20, two SRM 6s, and two medium lasers.
For the 3050 upgrade, the Charger was given an XL. Its firepower increased to 4 medium pulse lasers and an LRM 20.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 11-Oct-2004 09:11 Post subject: RE: Whats up with the XL engines ?? (alittle OOC here) |
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Just look at the tonnage the classic Phoenix Hawk loses to it's engine: 14,5 tons out of the 45 it weighs. That's a third of it's tonnage. So for an XL engine you get to mount another 7,25 tons of goodies on the thing, since it doesn't need to be faster.
Assault mechs should only go the XL route if they increase speed by it, IMO.
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bladewind
Free Rasalhague Republic
Major General
Joined: 02-Oct-2004 00:00
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Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 11-Oct-2004 09:21 Post subject: RE: Whats up with the XL engines ?? (alittle OOC here) |
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i have obviously no qualms about sticking XL engines into lights and mediums, im mainly ranting about XL engine assualts lol.
Certain mediums like the HunchBack cant use XL engines, i want him to last long enough to put another 200mm shell up the bad guy's ass.
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 11-Oct-2004 13:44 Post subject: RE: Whats up with the XL engines ?? (alittle OOC here) |
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Even the speed increase does not justify XLing an assault. Chances are you're only going to get up to 4/6 from 3/5...sure, you can get an 80 ton 'mech to 5/8, but it won't be able to carry too much even with an XL engine. In terms of to-hit modifiers the difference between 4/6 and 3/5 is minimal. XL engines have to produce a more dramatic speed increase in order to be worthwhile.
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bladewind
Free Rasalhague Republic
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Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 11-Oct-2004 21:04 Post subject: RE: Whats up with the XL engines ?? (alittle OOC here) |
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unless your assault is explictly designed for long range enagagements, most should just mount standard engines instead.
Support assualts like the Devastator and Thunderhawk can get away with an XL engine for their firepower. Heavy close range damage anvils really really need the standard engine to take the damage and shield the thin skin support assualts.
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 11-Oct-2004 23:00 Post subject: RE: Whats up with the XL engines ?? (alittle OOC here) |
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Call me an old softy, but I never liked the XL engines period.
OK, part of that probably has to do with my damage-phobia so maybe I'm not using them correctly, but I'd rather have a mech than can survive armagedon relatively intact than a mech that can crunch one mech before it gets it's chest blown out by a lucky shooter with a PPC.
The XL engine is just asking to be knocked out of the fight by some lucky kid rolling snake eyes on the hit location.
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-Groucho Marx
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bladewind
Free Rasalhague Republic
Major General
Joined: 02-Oct-2004 00:00
Posts: 1054
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 11-Oct-2004 23:06 Post subject: RE: Whats up with the XL engines ?? (alittle OOC here) |
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*imagines an one arm Altas with glowing redeyes walking out of a nuclear blast when the smoke is clearing*
Damn that is the Death's Head. 
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Moonlapse Vertigo
Clan Goliath Scorpion
Star Captain
Joined: 02-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 207
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| Posted: 11-Oct-2004 23:08 Post subject: RE: Whats up with the XL engines ?? (alittle OOC here) |
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| I'm not sure I agree that mediums benefit more from XL engines. A medium mech has torso less armor than a heavy, obviously, they can by killed that much faster. In 3025, medium mechs were main line fighters, in the current era, with the more powerful weopons of other and XL engines, they can be destroyed quickly.
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
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| Posted: 12-Oct-2004 03:53 Post subject: RE: Whats up with the XL engines ?? (alittle OOC here) |
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In lights and mediums it is easy to use XL engines. You generally don't have to worry about space requirements and the weight savings/movement incccreases are more noticable. As you get into heavies and assaults, the space inside becomes more of a premium as you generally have more weight to allocate to weapons and equipment. Theee movement incccrease is also not as noticable as the fastest a heavy can go is 6/9 and an assault 5/8. However, do not unnderestimate an assault that goes 4/6 or a heavy that goes 5/8. The small increase may mean the difference in the battle. The newer tech battlefields are all about mobility and field position. If your units cannot get to a certain spot in time you can lose everything you've worked for. Also the faster heavies and assaults can keep up a faster pacec on a long march which can shave hours off an arrival time. In battles where minutes count, hours can save your arse.
I use XL's. Not as much as I used to, but I still use them. I feel they have a place in any force I would field (in the correct era of course). If I can mount an XL on a mech and upgrade every weapon it has plus armor, then I feel it was worth it.
Alot of the designs in the custom TRO are custom designs. Usually only one or two were made. Cost factors some in those cases but not as much as a large production run. And remember, cost isn't as much a factor in the main house production runs. Can you imagine the owner of a mech factory in the Draconis Combine telling the acquisitions officer,"I'm sorry but you'll have to tell the Coordinator his credit is no good here. Cash up front!" He'd be dead on the spot. Coordinator Bob will say, "I need more mechs" And his staff would scramble to get him more mechs. The factories would give the Coordinator his mechs as a matter of course. No price asked nor expected. It is the Coordinator's will.
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bladewind
Free Rasalhague Republic
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Joined: 02-Oct-2004 00:00
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Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 12-Oct-2004 05:36 Post subject: RE: Whats up with the XL engines ?? (alittle OOC here) |
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I always believe assualts are meat shields, the real killers are heavies and mediums.
Edit: Even for mediums, EndoSteel frees up more than enough tonnage.
[ This Message was edited by: bladewind on 2004-10-12 05:41 ]
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