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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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 Posted: 01-Apr-2002 01:48 Post subject: Mage Knight |
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I had my first chance to play Mage Knight over spring break. A couple of friends (who are admittedly happy that Btech has been picked up by Wizkids) brought some minis and let me in on a game. I can't say that I was real impressed, although for what it was worth it was kinda fun (I won BTW). The pros are that it was easy to learn, had some depth, and the minis looked OK. On the bad side, though, I absolutely HATE systems where you can either move or shoot but not both. This does not award aggressive tactics, but promotes the come-and-get-me mentality that makes a lot of games drag. Wizkid's answer to this is the base-locking rules, which are a poor way of fixing the system IMO.
If the new Btech system is a lot like MK then I doubt I will put much money into it, if any. But it is good to get new people into the system, so I cannot say that clicky-tech is such a bad idea.
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Gangrene
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2002-04-01 01:49 ]
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Gangrene
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2002 02:45 Post subject: Mage Knight |
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On 2002-04-01 01:48, Gangrene wrote:
I cannot say that clicky-tech is such a bad idea. |
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I can say it's a bad idea. A bad idea that will lead to an even worse execution.
This will kill BattleTech. That idiot Weisman and his hangers on and asskissers have convinced him that if he just throws BattleTech or Mechwarrior on the box it'll be OK, and it might even sell for a while, but in 18 months when the teenagers who are intot he latest fad quit buying ClickTech or MageKnight or whatever, where will the game be then?
BattleTech was a great game where planning, skill, and luck made the difference. ClickTech will just be another fad game where deep pocketbooks wins the day.
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Pinhead
The Bloody Clans
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1258
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2002 08:24 Post subject: Mage Knight |
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The oddity is Mage Knight isn't bad. It definately isn't the worst game I've played.. (It isn't one of the best though either)..
What will stop me from playing click tech is the idea that it is a collectable pieces game, and that I will have to buy random pieces.
Sorry, but that truly does not interest me.
Pin
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Horhiro
Draconis Combine
Samurai
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1625
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Apr-2002 18:37 Post subject: Mage Knight |
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I agree, the collectability aspect is what will keep me from playing. If it had just been a new game with new rules and you could buy the bases you wanted, and stick your own minis on them....well that might have been cool.
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"I have lived my life trying to be a virtuous man. The Dragon admires tenacity, and the code of the samurai upholds it as well." -Minobu Tetsuhara
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2753
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Apr-2002 21:40 Post subject: Mage Knight |
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I could understand the random collection aspect if this was over something meant to be displayed as a symbol of fandom instead of being consistently being used. (Takara, the company who makes Transformers, has been making PVC figurines of some of the more popular characters and selling them MK style. They use such gimmics as 1 in 10 or something being a variation, such as metallic paint or translucent material, etc. For the last few runs however, some of teh larger characters, such as Scorpinok and Fortress Maximus, have been sold in that format in six connectible segments each- known as a 'chase' figure because you have to do some ahrd chasing to find them all before the next production run, known as 'acts.' That is something that can be done that way. BTech is not.)
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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AcidQueen
Capellan Confederation
Si-ben-bing
Joined: 22-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 96
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| Posted: 02-Apr-2002 22:53 Post subject: Mage Knight |
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On 2002-04-01 02:45, Cadet wrote:
I can say it's a bad idea. A bad idea that will lead to an even worse execution.
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And you know this because....?
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| This will kill BattleTech. |
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Were that indeed true, I highly doubt that FanPro would be shifting into high gear on continuing to support the current version of the game.
--Camille.
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What part of "LEAVE ME ALONE" is so hard to understand?
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Apr-2002 23:17 Post subject: Mage Knight |
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On 2002-04-01 01:48, Gangrene wrote:
But it is good to get new people into the system, so I cannot say that clicky-tech is such a bad idea.
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Gangrene
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Let's see the CCG wasn't a bad idea, but it didn't bring a lot of new players into the board game, the cartoon wasn't a bad idea but again it didn't bring in the masses...the computer games weren't a bad idea, but again they aren't bring the masses to the board game...
For example, two years ago at a con, we had a kid sign up for a BT game, it was the board game using the hex maps, with miniatures, and this person, around 15 or so, pulls out a laptop computer and askes us where he is suppose to connect into the network so we can do battle, he got really mad when half of the eight player started laughing, and then got madder when we explained to him that this was a board game, not a computer, and we would be happy to teach you how to play was offered but nope he stormed off and we found out later he got his money back from the con and that was that...
So tell me how is something that involves BUYING the better side going to really get folks into the game?
The game is already collectiable IF you want to buy the miniatures, other wise you can use just about anything for them...that is what is so great about this game, you DON'T NEED the offical playing pices to play the game...clicky tech though you do and that to me is not Battletech...
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Karagin
If you can strike few with many, you will thus minimize the number of those with whom you do battle.
[ This Message was edited by: Karagin on 2002-04-02 23:22 ]
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Apr-2002 23:23 Post subject: Mage Knight |
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I don't think the main focus of the cartoon, CCG or comp games were to get more payers for the boardgame.
They were intended to make money on their own, which they did with varrying degrees of success (or failure, however you please).
That they got some people into the game is just a good sideeffect.
Paul
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ICER
Clan Hell's Horses
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1663
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Apr-2002 01:05 Post subject: Mage Knight |
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How about a Soap Opera based on the Btech universe. 
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Apr-2002 01:07 Post subject: Mage Knight |
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Didn't they already do that with the Cartoon? And the comic books?
And isn't Andromeda or how ever it's spelt...close enough?
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 03-Apr-2002 01:33 Post subject: Mage Knight |
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And you know this because....?
I know it because it is a flawed design. You don't build a house on a flawed foundation.
ClickyTech is not designed as a game that will be played for years to come, it is designed to get the short term disposable income of teens who are into the latest fad. And it might work for a while, but in 2 years when the fad dies and the well dries up BattleTech and ClickyTech and whatever else is associated with it will dry up too.
Were that indeed true, I highly doubt that FanPro would be shifting into high gear on continuing to support the current version of the game.
Do you really think WhizKids cares about you or me or any of the other people that have supported this game for years? And when ClickyTech does finally go under, do you really think Weisman is going to continue to support BattleTech that we know now?
He took a game that doesn't rely on tactics or planning or building the most effective mech and made it into a game where deep pocketbooks rule and slapped BattleTech on the box. And when it dies it'll take the game we have now with it, no matter how much FanPro might be gearing up to make.
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AcidQueen
Capellan Confederation
Si-ben-bing
Joined: 22-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 96
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| Posted: 03-Apr-2002 01:44 Post subject: Mage Knight |
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On 2002-04-03 01:33, Cadet wrote:
And you know this because....?
I know it because it is a flawed design. You don't build a house on a flawed foundation. |
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Have you actually seen the design of Mechwarrior:Dark Age? Do you know for an absolute fact what the game will be like? Or are you simply making the wild assumption that it's simply MageKnight with a new face and a rule added to govern the use of the heat dial?
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Do you really think WhizKids cares about you or me or any of the other people that have supported this game for years?
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Yes, I do believe that Jordan Weisman (and, by extension, WizKids) does care about those of us that have supported the game for years--the continuation of the current ruleset as "Classic" BattleTech is solid and incontrovertible proof of that. That you refuse to admit it does not change the fact that such proof exists.
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| And when ClickyTech does finally go under, do you really think Weisman is going to continue to support BattleTech that we know now? |
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As I said--were your unproven and (therefore) baseless claims indeed true, I highly doubt that FanPro would be continuing to support the current ruleset. I also highly doubt that, again, were your claims indeed true, Jordan Weisman would have made a very public and very firm commitment to continue supporting the currently existing ruleset.
Your post has changed not one iota of what I have said. You are engaging in wildly fantastic speculation and have shown me no facts whatsoever to back up that speculation--only a repetition of that speculation, as if that somehow proves what you originally posted.
--Camille.
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I find it amazing that people are making ASSumptions and comments about a game that they haven't even so much as SEEN yet. Pathetic.
[ This Message was edited by: AcidQueen on 2002-04-03 01:44 ]
[ This Message was edited by: AcidQueen on 2002-04-03 01:45 ]
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What part of "LEAVE ME ALONE" is so hard to understand?
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Apr-2002 01:53 Post subject: Mage Knight |
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Let's see to understand MWDA all one has to do is play MK...it's that simple...and after reading the rules to that game, I found my self wondering who would really want to play this...and then I saw at a con back in Novemeber the primary age group...12 year kids...and with their folk's income to get them a new batch of minis each and everytime they go to the local gorcery store (like Mieyer here in Michigan which carries the MK stuff right next to the tabloids) one has to wonder how they can hope to compete with that...
Mechwarrior Dark Age is nothing more then MageKnight with robots...nice name same game...buy your way to victory...aka Magic CCG.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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AcidQueen
Capellan Confederation
Si-ben-bing
Joined: 22-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 96
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| Posted: 03-Apr-2002 01:55 Post subject: Mage Knight |
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On 2002-04-03 01:53, Karagin wrote:
Let's see to understand MWDA all one has to do is play MK... |
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This does not change my post in any way, Karagin.
Sorry, but the "everything I say three times is true" argument won't work with me.
Show me some hard evidence that MK is an exact copy of what MW:DA will be like.
You and Cadet are the ones making the assertions--I challenge both of you to show me some hard evidence. Internal memos, playtest notes, something that actually shows that your claims have merit.
--Camille.
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What part of "LEAVE ME ALONE" is so hard to understand?
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Apr-2002 02:03 Post subject: Mage Knight |
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You want hard evidence? Take MK, toss the normal pices, put mechs in there, use the bases of the normal pieces to do the damage etc...and play the game as you would MK...then tell me if I am not far off the mark...
And if you won't actually do this well, I gave you one way to see my point, so I am looking forward to seeing what you have to say on this...let us know what happens.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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