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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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 Posted: 17-Apr-2002 20:19 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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On 2002-04-17 20:03, Paul wrote:
Contrary to fans, who ALWAYS know whats best. ;p
Paul
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No, we know what we want and like and will pay for...there is a big difference between the two...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Apr-2002 20:23 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Well, it was a joke.
But seriously.
No, you know what you alone want.
And you have an idea what several other's want.
And that's about it.
Paul
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Apr-2002 21:20 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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It is not what you know,but what you think you know.
Sir Henry
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Apr-2002 21:49 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Quote:
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On 2002-04-17 20:23, Paul wrote:
Well, it was a joke.
But seriously.
No, you know what you alone want.
And you have an idea what several other's want.
And that's about it.
Paul
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So I take you didn't pay any attention to the poll here about folks voting on whether or not they wanted to see the UNSEEN back as redrawn mechs or the one Sarna?
Seem those few folks number higher then just a few...but hey don't let that stop you from raining on the parade once more.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Apr-2002 00:05 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Actually, no I didn't spot that one.
(And I must admit that I can't find it right now neither, glancing over the boards. If you could gimme a link, that'd be cool.)
I'm not raining on any parade here. IIRC, I was the first one in this thread to *suggest* a petition to attach a number to whoever wants it.
You're being a bit quick to judge here.
Which is my whole point. Some people on this board are rather quick to make a judgement.
Its rather arrogant for a company to assume they know exactly what their clients want, and never try to interact with them. A company can be succesful dispite of this behavior, not because of it.
But the same arrogance problem works to other way as well, to the clients or fans.
And hey, even if you do show them that a lot of people would want the unseen redrawn, and they don't do anything with it, that still doesn't automatically make them a bad company. Apart from the fact that a business is no democracy, there are always other considerations one can't be aware of. And do you have a right to know these? Nope. They might tell you, but not because it's your due.
Anyway, what I'd like to see a bit more is people giving the Evil Corporations a bit more of the benefit of the doubt.
It seems to me some people are a lot more eager to do the opposite. It seems to me some people think they're just Out To Get Them. That they thrive on harrassing and ignoring their fans.
I'm not blind. I know some companies do suck, I know some do screw their customers over.
But to my perhaps biassed eyes, WK and FanPro's making a pretty good effort in reaching out to their fans. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Is there room for improvement? Probably. Perfection does not exist. But I do think that the near constant negativity doesn't fit the situation either.
</rant> 
Paul
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Apr-2002 00:19 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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As I have been told WORDING is everything on the net...telling me or anyone that I only have an idea of what a few folks want when there have been numerous threads on the UNSEEN all over the BT message boards and folks on all of them asking for their return etc...is more like you are suggesting that there is only about 5 persons asking for their return.
You want me or anyone else not to draw that kind of judgement, then may I suggest better wording of your replies...
The point here is that WE the fans have asked and begged and all we get is an answer of "we can't please everyone on this, so we won't do it". That really tells us a lot...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 18-Apr-2002 00:30 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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There may be some good news in all this you know.
Some time ago ago I bought an unseen mech on ebay. I won't say what or who. But when I got it in the mail the underside of the base was all scraped up over its entire surface and I couldn't figure why. A couple of days ago I ran across a site that gives a detailed picture run-through of how to make a mold and cast a lead mini and everything you need to get for the job. Now I feel pretty sure that the mini I bought was home-made.
I guess they just waited too long to bring back the unseen and now it would seem some sort of "Unseen Underground" exists. Hell, that mini making walk-through has me thinking real hard about spending some money and giving home-builts a try myself.
And since it seems somebody out there really is putting out a few unseens on the sly, the new breed may indeed have a chance to become aquainted with the Unseens.
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"Those who beat their guns into plows will plow for those with guns..." -Thomas Jefferson
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 18-Apr-2002 00:38 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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What's the URL for the site? I could always use a few more Warhammers.
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Apr-2002 00:39 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Actually, it would be kinda cool if you tried to stop reading between the lines as much. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
The only opinion one can really claim to know is one's own.
Beyond that, you can make assumptions about what other people appear to think.
To me the only safe conclusion is that a lot of people are still very much interested in the Unseen.
But what they want exactly is less clear.
Some want them back exactly the way they were.
Some want resculpts.
Some would be okay with images that are very losely connected to the original, others want near copies.
I personally don't really care.
If they come back, cool. I might get some.
If they don't, no problem. I've got plenty of other mechs to pick from. Some I like, some I don't. But that's just my opinion.
You seem to heavily dislike the explaination that since you can't please everyone, it's best left alone.
I don't fully understand why. I think you agree that it is impossible to do so.
If they make a redraw, some people won't like them. Maybe even a lot. Whether the art's made by fans or not.
If you somehow get the old images back, some people will just not care. Some will be annoyed that their $50 vintage Shadow Hawk just dipped heavily in price. (Although I don't have much sympathy for them, personally. =)
So if you displease people by not looking back and making new Mechs, and you know you'll displease people if you do make the effort, why bother?
Art? I tend to not buy a Sourcebook solely based on art. In fact I think most of the art in the old House Sourcebooks sucks, but I still really want them. I think it won't impact to much things.
Mini sales? Whether you try to sell new 'Mechs or the Unseen, you're still selling mini's.
You think that a large amount will be sold since there is a high demand. You can't prove this. I can't disprove it. (And how do we define a high demand anyway? Is 100 sells a lot? 1000? I haven't a clue about Btech mini sales figures myself.)
Eitherway, numbers matter.
That's why I keep hammering on the petition idea. That way you can attach a number to the wish. Right now we're argueing about assumptions.
Paul
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Apr-2002 00:43 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Quote:
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On 2002-04-18 00:39, Paul wrote:
That's why I keep hammering on the petition idea. That way you can attach a number to the wish. Right now we're argueing about assumptions.
Paul
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Then how about we find away to do this so the arguing can stop and the postion of what is or is not wanted made clear as can be so all can see the points and have an understanding...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Apr-2002 00:48 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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I'm all for it.
I'm already asking around here and there.
I don't know enough about it all myself, so I can't exactly force people. =)
Eitherway, I do think there is one important consideration. However reliable this petition can be made, any numbers will be indications only. After all, it'll be limited to people with Internet only. And then it'll be further limited to the people who find out about it, and care enough to try.
Of course, if some thousand people vote, I'd figure that a strong indication. =)
What I mean is, I'd consider it unrealistic for people to assume that because the petition yields an X number of people, this automatically means that WK/FP will do something. They might still do nothing.
Who knows, we'll see.
Paul
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Apr-2002 00:55 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Vaild points, but if enough word is put out, and if the link is posted to every BT meassage board and we the fans tell folks who may or may not be regulars or even post just lurk around about it, they may just vote...
And you are right they may not do anything about the results, but it will show all concered that the fans are behind the game and would like to see the older parts kept around and not tossed away...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Apr-2002 14:03 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Yes, that it does.
I already intended to broadcats it to every Btech board I know of, when a working petition is set up with a decent amount of security. When the time comes, I'll post it with a wee list of what other boards its been posted on, so others can post on those I missed or don't know of.
I've looked at the CBT poll (same system as on here) as an option, but I think its not a very good one.
The security is that one'd have to be a registered member to vote. This means we'll have an IP addy and email addy on the admin/mod end, which is good. However, because of the large amount of accounts already active, it'll be tricky to spot any doubles. Not impossible, just a lot of work.
Guess who'll have to do it. 
In addition, I know that some people don't go to CBT simply because of its registration only policy, which would limit the amount of people who'd be able to post their vote.
(Which is not to say the amount of people who don't go there for whatever other reason.)
That's why I think a webpage is better. If I can't get that going, we can always fall back on polling on boards.
Paul
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Apr-2002 14:05 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Sounds like a plan...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 19-Apr-2002 03:51 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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The link to the sight with the instructions for making your own minis is this -
http://www.m8.ebayauctions.8m.com/
He has a whole series of pictures, takes you through it step by step and tells you what you need in the way of supplies and equipment. I'm not sure I could use this to make, say, a Locust. Those MG pods are pretty small. But with this info I think I could make my own mech if it were a one-piece mini or if the parts were fairly large.
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"Those who beat their guns into plows will plow for those with guns..." -Thomas Jefferson
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