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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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 Posted: 20-Mar-2002 23:49 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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On 2002-03-20 18:18, Karagin wrote:
Thus not many know what ECM can do. And you are right IF my idea was used then yes all mechs would have ECM or would be forced to fight at 7 hexes or more...
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Most of the useful weapons fire occurs within 7 hexes. But you want to reduce the effectiveness of weapons in their optimal ranges. So your goal is to make Battletech the most boring game on the shelves?
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Gangrene
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Mar-2002 23:58 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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Most of the useful weapons fire occurs within 7 hexes. But you want to reduce the effectiveness of weapons in their optimal ranges. So your goal is to make Battletech the most boring game on the shelves?
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No. You are missing the point. The ECM has a range of 6 hexes, the SAME range as the minimun on the Inner Sphere LRMs, which doesn't seem to effect folks from firing them off. All I am suggesting is that when a mech that has ECM is in range for that system to be considered working...that it makes the attacker pay a +1 (or more depending on how you want it to work) for being in the ECM effective range to simulate the disruption of the targeting systems on the mech.
How does that make it the most boring game out there?
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 21-Mar-2002 00:49 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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It makes it more boring cause To Hit numbers are already high enough as it is. Its annoying when you have less than a 30% chance of hitting something through the entire game. This rule just adds another reason why things CANT hit. Now, i know the whole point is keeping your "to hits" down while raising the other person's "to hit" rolls, but when it gets to 10+ for both people its downright boring cause nothing ever hits and you are just wasting time.
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 21-Mar-2002 01:02 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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Exactly. It is only a +1 at ranges of less than 6, but your (Karagins) post only looks at how it effects LRM's. PPC's, large lasers, all smaller lasers, SRM's, and most high damage ballistic weapons have short ranges of 6 or less. Add in the normal movement mods and the possibility of terrain mods and the average to-hit has just increased from 8+ or 9+ to 9+ or 10+. That makes for very boring games; especially for those of us who like high damage, high risk fire fights.
It's not that your idea is that bad, but there are already enough penalties on to-hit rolls. Putting a penalty in the range of highest damage won't advance it with me or the younger crowd.
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Gangrene
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 21-Mar-2002 01:12 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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I would go with this though IF weapons were made more damaging.
Say inside that 6 hexes or whatever, the +1 or whatever came into effect, but it was countered by a +25% damage per weapon. The might not hit as often, but when they do by golly you'll know it.
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Pinhead
The Bloody Clans
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1258
Location: United States
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| Posted: 21-Mar-2002 08:21 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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Karagin,
The Artemis IV launcher still launches. You just don't get to add the +2 when you look up to see how many missles hit.
Pin
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 21-Mar-2002 13:13 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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On 2002-03-21 08:21, Pinhead wrote:
Karagin,
The Artemis IV launcher still launches. You just don't get to add the +2 when you look up to see how many missles hit.
Pin
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Thank you I know that, that is what I am trying to get across, YOU can still fire your weapons even with the simple +1 added to the roll from the ECM, in no does this prevent firing. With ArtIV you lost the chance to increase your weapons accuarcy and thus have to hope more the half the missile hit. Same basic idea for my ECM rule, you have your targeting and tracking system jinxed for a few seconds (or how ever long you stay in range of the ECM) and the computer calulates higher number to hit with...I still don't see how this really changes much, given that folks will fire their Inner Sphere LRMs at 3 hexes into the their minimum for a larger to hit chance then the single +1 add from this rule would do...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 21-Mar-2002 15:40 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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Cause you are adding +1 to hit on top of everything else going on. And like I said when to hit rolls are already annoyingly high as it is, why add yet another reason that it cant hit? I see your point for the ECM...but its just not practical for Battletech's current rules...
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"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8050
Location: United States
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| Posted: 21-Mar-2002 15:53 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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Karagin, did you not say this:
A mech as Guardian or Angel ECM (or one of our home versions) and the system is in range of the attacker, then the attacker should have to add a +1 at the max range of the ECM if he is in the coverage area to his to hit roll, a +2 if he is in the medium range of the ECM and a +3 at short range.
So you're talking a lot more than a simple +1...
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 21-Mar-2002 22:08 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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On 2002-03-21 15:53, chihawk wrote:
Karagin, did you not say this:
A mech as Guardian or Angel ECM (or one of our home versions) and the system is in range of the attacker, then the attacker should have to add a +1 at the max range of the ECM if he is in the coverage area to his to hit roll, a +2 if he is in the medium range of the ECM and a +3 at short range.
So you're talking a lot more than a simple +1...
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Yes I did, AS one idea, then I gave another one, either way the idea was IMPROVE the ECM and make it something that is more usefull, the first way with 3 modifers is more complex and I was not happy with it, but still thought some one might want to use it. Then I thought a simple +1 for the ECM would work better, thus I am more in favor of that then the one with all 3 modifiers, BUT both do about the samething.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2002 06:16 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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You posted the part I quoted at 2002-03-19 22:36, and it was the 3rd post in the thread. You've made no changes to your proposal after that post.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2002 06:38 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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Read the first paragraph of my first posting...I talk about the straight +1 modifer there.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2002 16:35 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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Yes, I saw that.
Now explain the context of second message that I partially quote please.
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Horhiro
Draconis Combine
Samurai
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1625
Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2002 21:15 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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I don't see how many players on this board will agree with you on this for one simple reason. Most players here pine for 3025 when there were "less" rules, so new ones probalbly won't go over well.
ECMs are fine as they are IMHO. At both Monte Diablo and Chihawk's "School Daze" TotalCon event they were used very sucessfully to disrupt the C3s.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 25-Mar-2002 08:50 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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On 2002-03-22 16:35, chihawk wrote:
Yes, I saw that.
Now explain the context of second message that I partially quote please.
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The second part was an attempt to add another level, in ecessence give two ideas and hope to come up with one that was easy to add in and was not over kill...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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