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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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 Posted: 28-Mar-2003 22:53 Post subject: Hard points |
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Omnimechs are a fun and great idea, but I think their application overdid the idea of modularity. By allowing so much flexibility FASA undermined the design system and the credibility of the story. Any military pundit could tell you that a system with interchangable parts and adaptive mission profile that could compete or outclass fixed designs would quickly come to dominate the battlefield.
A better way of introducing modularity to mechs is through the use of hard points. Instead of making everything accessible to all locations, certain locations are designed to allow a for a small set of interchangeable weapons. This would increase the complexity and depth of the design system and would be a marked improvement in technology.
HARD POINTS
Gameplay: Hard points can only mount weapons of a certain class(es), depending upon the type of hard point. Hard points can support any number of weapons up to the total tonnage allowed. Like pod space the weapon capacity of the hard points count toward the tonnage limit of the mech. However, hard points also have a tonnage associated with them for hook-ups and general housings for the weapons.
Weapons that use ammo must have the ammo in the same hard point. In the event of an ammo explosion only the hard point containing the ammo is destroyed, as well as all other equipment in the hard point. The hit location that the hard point is in is not destroyed. Also, equipment mounted in the location containing the hard point, but not within the hard point, is not destroyed.
Hard points cannot mount some equipment: MASC, heat sinks, jumpjets, TSM, or physical attack weapons. All hard points can mount electronics (TC, ECM, Beagle Probe, Artemis, etc.).
Hard Point A
Tons: .5
Weapon Capacity: 5 tons
Class: laser or ballistic
Hard Point B
Tons: 1
Weapon Capacity: 10 tons
Class: laser or ballistic
Hard Point C
Tons: 2
Weapon Capacity: 20 tons
Class: laser or ballistic
Hard Point D
Tons: .5
Weapon Capacity: 6 tons
Class: missile
Hard Point E
Tons: 1
Weapon Capacity: 12 tons
Class: missile
Hard Point F
Tons: 1.5
Weapon Capacity: 18 tons
Class: missile
So what do you think?
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Gangrene
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 29-Mar-2003 11:03 Post subject: RE: Hard points |
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I don't think Ballistic and Laser/PPC should be able to use the same hard point though. Different power requirements and all.
I don't think the OmniMech was a bad idea, but it horribly abused. Instead of a single Omni in each weight class (1 each, light, med., heavy., assault), or even the original 16 designs and something like one or two Clan specific ones,, able to be adapted to any number of missions, we ended up with something like 40 Clan Omni designs, which defeats the whole purpose of OmniMechs in the first place.
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Mar-2003 11:46 Post subject: RE: Hard points |
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Quote:
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On 2003-03-29 11:03, Cadet wrote:
I don't think Ballistic and Laser/PPC should be able to use the same hard point though. Different power requirements and all.
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Originally I wasn't going have them use the same hard points, but then I got impatient. I figure there's no reason to make it too complicated.
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I don't think the OmniMech was a bad idea, but it horribly abused. Instead of a single Omni in each weight class (1 each, light, med., heavy., assault), or even the original 16 designs and something like one or two Clan specific ones, able to be adapted to any number of missions, we ended up with something like 40 Clan Omni designs, which defeats the whole purpose of OmniMechs in the first place.
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Exactly. When you have omni's there is no real reason to design new mechs. At most you might need 4 per weight class. The thing is people like designing their own gear. That's one of the reasons I have stayed with Btech for so long. Omnimechs kind of undermine that.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5792
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Mar-2003 16:43 Post subject: RE: Hard points |
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Quote:
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I don't think the OmniMech was a bad idea, but it horribly abused. Instead of a single Omni in each weight class (1 each, light, med., heavy., assault), or even the original 16 designs and something like one or two Clan specific ones, able to be adapted to any number of missions, we ended up with something like 40 Clan Omni designs, which defeats the whole purpose of OmniMechs in the first place.
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Exactly. When you have omni's there is no real reason to design new mechs. At most you might need 4 per weight class. The thing is people like designing their own gear. That's one of the reasons I have stayed with Btech for so long. Omnimechs kind of undermine that.
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the way i see it, certain designs didn't fit the rolls they were ment to... like it moved 6/9, but you need a 5/8 with a better weapons load. mistakes will happen, BUT they don't need a mech of each type with one only using ES, another only FF, ect.
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2003 11:19 Post subject: RE: Hard points |
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I always considered creating a new OmniMech variant as designing my own gear.
16 original + 1.5 * 17 = appox 40. This would be about 1 to two specific omnis per clan plus the original 16.
Now hardpoints that weigh something is a very interesting issue. It makes the varability cost something besides $$$. A couple of thoughts on them.
1) Heat sink pods should be allowed to be placed in the same location as a weapon to dirrectly dump some of it's heat. Look at the old Vindicator fluff for an example.
2) I would probably seperate energy and ballistic into different hard points as well. Maybe leave the tonnage requirements the same, but you cannot put energy onto ballistic and vice versa.
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2003 14:25 Post subject: RE: Hard points |
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OK, how about this:
HARD POINTS
Gameplay: blah blah blah see the original post.
Heatsinks that reduce the heat generated by a particular weapon (as per the rules in Maximum Tech) may be mounted in the same hard point as the weapon. These heatsinks do not help dissipate heat from other sources on the mech.
Hard Point B1
Tons: .5
Weapon Capacity: 5 tons
Class: ballistic
Hard Point B2
Tons: 1
Weapon Capacity: 10 tons
Class: ballistic
Hard Point B3
Tons: 2
Weapon Capacity: 20 tons
Class: ballistic
Hard Point L1
Tons: .5
Weapon Capacity: 5 tons
Class: laser
Hard Point L2
Tons: 1
Weapon Capacity: 10 tons
Class: laser
Hard Point L3
Tons: 2
Weapon Capacity: 20 tons
Class: laser
Hard Point M1
Tons: .5
Weapon Capacity: 6 tons
Class: missile
Hard Point M2
Tons: 1
Weapon Capacity: 12 tons
Class: missile
Hard Point M3
Tons: 1.5
Weapon Capacity: 18 tons
Class: missile
Hard Point O1
Tons: 1.25
Weapon Capacity: 5 tons
Class: ballistic, laser or missile
Hard Point O2
Tons: 2.5
Weapon Capacity: 10 tons
Class: ballistic, laser or missile
Hard Point O3
Tons: 5
Weapon Capacity: 20 tons
Class: ballistic, laser or missile
Gangrene
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2003-03-31 14:26 ]
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Gangrene
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2003 14:33 Post subject: RE: Hard points |
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An improvement definately.
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2003 19:48 Post subject: RE: Hard points |
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Yeah, much better.
I don't see why you could not Hardpoint mount heatsinks on any type of Hardpoint. After all, all you need to do is bolt them on, and connect the coolant tubes. They would probably be the easiest item to mount anywhere.
And you have the coolant flow ability, otherwise you cannot mount weapons with different heat outputs.
Beyond that it looks good. The auto-CASE is a nice gimmick, and makes the weight less of an issue to me. I'd have to actually play with it to decide on whether I think it too light or too heavy.
Paul
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2003 00:10 Post subject: RE: Hard points |
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I can see why heat sinks aren't mounted (just on the piping and what not), but I would say that each weapon mounted in a hardpoint generates 1 less heat (to a minimum of 1) thanks to being just "hung" on the mount (think airflow cooling the weapon), but that no heatsinks can be mounted (even in conjunction with a weapon).
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2003 00:19 Post subject: RE: Hard points |
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I was thinking that these are not external hard points, just a large generic housing with standardized hookups.
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Gangrene
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2003 09:11 Post subject: RE: Hard points |
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What, kinda like the fluff on the Raptor in TRO 3058?
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2003 10:59 Post subject: RE: Hard points |
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Kind of like a description of the Mad Cat's arm pods I once found. I think it was in MW2 RPG.
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2003 13:25 Post subject: RE: Hard points |
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Quote:
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On 2003-04-01 00:10, Cadet wrote:
I can see why heat sinks aren't mounted (just on the piping and what not),
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? I don't think I understand you there.
If you mount a laser, or AC on a hardpoint, you have to hook up power, coolant and a link to the 'Mech's computer.
So, what makes it so hard to mount a heatsink, when all you'd be hooking up is power, coolant and a link to the 'Mech's computer.
Paul
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2003 15:20 Post subject: RE: Hard points |
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Quote:
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On 2003-04-01 13:25, Paul wrote:
If you mount a laser, or AC on a hardpoint, you have to hook up power, coolant and a link to the 'Mech's computer.
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My hard points would be analogous to hard points on moden aircraft. Most are not equiped to transfer fluids across the interface, which is much more complicated than a computer or power hookup.
In my own engineering projects I have intefaced external computer components with dedicated microcontrollers, which requires both power and logic interfaces. From my fluids classes I can tell you that making a fluid exchange is a lot more complicated than sticking a connector into a socket.
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2003 16:10 Post subject: RE: Hard points |
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But yet it is done for external fuel pods to increase the range of fightercraft every since the second World War.
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