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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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 Posted: 06-Mar-2003 07:54 Post subject: THIRD WORLD TRAVELER |
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THIRD WORLD TRAVELER puts up magazine articles and book excerpts that offer an alternative view to the corporate media about the state of democracy in America,
and about the impact of the policies of the United States' government, transnational corporations, international trade and financial institutions, and the corporate media, on war and peace, democracy, civil liberties, free speech, human rights, and social and economic justice, in the Third World, and in the United States. THIRD WORLD TRAVELER also provides information and links to aid international travelers.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/
Why I posted the link? Just so the patriots can have a look at the other side of the coin. Their leaders are not doing the nice things they speak about at home, and people just don't care. Just point out a foreign target and tell us they're evil so we don't have to see how evil our own leaders are.
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A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Mar-2003 13:00 Post subject: RE: THIRD WORLD TRAVELER |
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Is this pointing at just America's leaders or all Leaders????
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 06-Mar-2003 13:10 Post subject: RE: THIRD WORLD TRAVELER |
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The US, it would seem. You'll have to check the others on your own.
I know European media doesn't always report on what some people are up to. The French involvement in the Rwanda massacres wasn't widely reported. The French sold weapons to the French-speaking tribe - that was wiping out the English-speaking tribe! 
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A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
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Hardware
Clan Ghost Bear
Star Colonel
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 605
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Mar-2003 01:38 Post subject: RE: THIRD WORLD TRAVELER |
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The quote from the page you posted;
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"The media are a pitiful lot. They don't give us any history, they don't give us any analysis, they don't tell us anything. They don't raise the most basic questions: Who has the most weapons of mass destruction in the world by far? Who has used weapons of mass destruction more than any other nation? Who has killed more people in this world with weapons of mass destruction than any other nation? The answer: the United States."
Howard Zinn
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Actually incorrect, weapons of mass destruction are nuclear, biological and chemical. The US has used nukes twice, long before the long term impact was understood. In fact, the casualties from both atomic bombings combined do not equal the death toll of the the first Tokyo fire raid. To my knowledge the US has never used biological and chemical weapons.
The former Soviet Union repeatedly used chemical weapons in Afghanistan. Iraq has used chemical and biological weapons many times, both in its war with Iran and on its own population.
By the way, do you know who Neville Chamberlain was?
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The more I get to know people the more I like my dog.
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Mar-2003 08:01 Post subject: RE: THIRD WORLD TRAVELER |
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One of the 'New Kids on the Block'??? Or was that 'Menudo'??? 
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Alexander
Heavy Horse Merc Brigade
Commanding Officer
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 828
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 07-Mar-2003 10:21 Post subject: RE: THIRD WORLD TRAVELER |
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Ahh, Menudo. They were to important to civilization to die so young and tragically... Oh, wait. That was just a dream? NOOOOOOOO!!!!
Alexander
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War is God's way of teaching geography.
*******
Commanding Officer, North West Armoured Cavalry
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Mar-2003 14:02 Post subject: RE: THIRD WORLD TRAVELER |
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I know who Chamberlain was. Unfortunately, I don't think that too many people nowadays do.
As far as my news goes, I go to www.cnsnews.com. Of all the various news sources that I have seen, they are the least biased. Almost everything on their site is straight news articles. They even cover issues that others are silent on.
Another site that I hit is www.thesmokinggun.com. The site, using the Freedom of Information Act, obtains paperwork and other data (often from various levels of government) and posts them on the site for public viewing. By 1:30 PM Central the same day they had the reports from the guards who busted the guy who had that peace T-shirt on. As a side note, these are the same people who broke to the world the allegations against Michael Jackson two weeks ago and the news about the 'previous career' of one of the Joe Millionaire finalists.
The third place I duck off to is www.snopes.com. This site deals mainly with urban myths and legends, but has also begun dealing with current situations. There is also a subsection of the site known as the Treasury of Lost Legends which is all one big exercise in how to think for yourself.
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 07-Mar-2003 19:50 Post subject: RE: THIRD WORLD TRAVELER |
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On 2003-03-07 01:38, Hardware wrote:
The US has used nukes twice, long before the long term impact was understood. In fact, the casualties from both atomic bombings combined do not equal the death toll of the the first Tokyo fire raid. To my knowledge the US has never used biological and chemical weapons. |
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These people don't count only official US forces and actions, I suspect. They happily rack up the count with puppet dictators doing the bidding of their masters in the good old US. The one who supplies the weapon and approves of what it's used for is part of the crime, neh?
The Agent Orange herbicide used in Vietnam wasn't designed to be a weapon, but the effects on people weren't nice.
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By the way, do you know who Neville Chamberlain was? |
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Yes. We don't have one at the moment, Blair is actively involved in starting a war, not trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement.
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A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
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Hardware
Clan Ghost Bear
Star Colonel
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 605
Location: United States
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| Posted: 08-Mar-2003 06:18 Post subject: RE: THIRD WORLD TRAVELER |
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By the way, do you know who Neville Chamberlain was? |
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Yes. We don't have one at the moment, Blair is actively involved in starting a war, not trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement.
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It is very disheartening to hear you say that. You have forgotten the lesson of history and are doomed to repeat it.
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The more I get to know people the more I like my dog.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 08-Mar-2003 08:11 Post subject: RE: THIRD WORLD TRAVELER |
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In what way? Saddam is sitting cooped up in his palace, unable to really do a thing to anyone outside Iraq without getting squashed. He's killed his own people and can imprison them without just cause, but that's what he's been doing all the time.
Meanwhile Bush sends soldiers all around the globe to kill other people while searching for Osama bin Laden. Some of the prisoners taken are dumped in Guantanamo, denied both status as P.O.W.s or any formal charges. At home the Patriot Act makes it possible for him to spy on people with little or no reason and then detain them without charges indefinitely. And of course, there's the declaration of "either with us or against us" to consider.
This situation is actually alarming! After the Soviets collapsed, the US has actually gotten more aggressive, not less. The small details like propping up a dictator and having him "ask" for US intervention have sometimes been left by the wayside. Besides, the use of military might instead of negotiation when the other guy hasn't attacked you isn't exactly conducive to gaining any good will.
Perhaps your enthusiasm for war has to do with never having a modern one fought on your own soil?
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A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 08-Mar-2003 11:31 Post subject: RE: THIRD WORLD TRAVELER |
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Saddam is sitting cooped up in his palace, unable to really do a thing to anyone outside Iraq without getting squashed.
That situation has occurred because of our aggressiveness. If we leave, then he has free reign. And leaving our troops there indefinitely is not an option.
He's killed his own people and can imprison them without just cause, but that's what he's been doing all the time.
Oh, so since he's been doing for so long its okay? Well, no matter what we do, as long as we do it for a few decades it should be morally okay by that standard.
Meanwhile Bush sends soldiers all around the globe to kill other people while searching for Osama bin Laden.
Yup. Thats what happens when you ram planes into buildings and kill thousands of citizens of the most powerful country in the world. I make no excuse for this. There is no use having power if you cannot use it to protect yourself. Furthermore, if outsiders are threatening our citizens, then maybe they deserve to be killed.
Some of the prisoners taken are dumped in Guantanamo, denied both status as P.O.W.s or any formal charges. At home the Patriot Act makes it possible for him to spy on people with little or no reason and then detain them without charges indefinitely. And of course, there's the declaration of "either with us or against us" to consider.
Cry me a river.
What would those who oppose this war have us do? Recall all of our forces and hope that the UN will enforce its own policies? That isn't sound strategy, as the UN has the hardest time keeping its focus unless a crisis is involved. Would you have us recall all forces and lift all bans? Then maybe they would live in peace and become nice people who cherish free speech and democracy. Anyone who knows anyhing about Islam knows that's a load of nonsense. So then what? Keep them economically suppressed enough to hopefully prevent WMD's from being made by those who want to blow us up while still allowing enough money to flow into the region to ease our liberal consciences and hope some of it makes it to their "innocent" people. To hell with that idea, it won't work. Let's finish him and his regime, and put someone in place we can keep an eye on.
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Gangrene
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2003-03-08 12:12 ]
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Gangrene
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 08-Mar-2003 21:59 Post subject: RE: THIRD WORLD TRAVELER |
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Hey, at least you call it like it is! Those who have power will use it, and may the rest go to a hot place. Honesty is a scarce commodity today, and merits some respect. I have no respect for people who just repeat the official government lines without thought.
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