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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
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Location: United States
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 Posted: 06-Nov-2002 01:25 Post subject: RE: Laser Shoots down artillery shell.... |
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interesting. now heres the kicker, this was info released to the public. which means it is likly to be out dated.
so, to what level is our [US] military equipment truely at?
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Nov-2002 01:35 Post subject: RE: Laser Shoots down artillery shell.... |
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Best guess is some where between what is out in the books and such and a tab beyond that...I can say that a lot of the state of the art isn't that wide spread...but then again that is common knownledge too.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
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Vagabond
Mercenary
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Nov-2002 02:24 Post subject: RE: Laser Shoots down artillery shell.... |
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battlemechs? how far away are they really.
considering certain so called advancements in technology have been around for 10+ to 20+ years.... how far are we from bi-pedal tanks.
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Nov-2002 07:42 Post subject: RE: Laser Shoots down artillery shell.... |
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Myomers are the last remaining Obstacle....
We have just about everything else, or a ready substitute......
I think I'll make plans to build one.....
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A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Nov-2002 09:26 Post subject: RE: Laser Shoots down artillery shell.... |
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It is going to take them years to refine the gyro I think though....
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Col. Dwight Chandra
Lewis' Executioners
C.O., Alpha Co.
Joined: 15-Aug-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Nov-2002 11:21 Post subject: RE: Laser Shoots down artillery shell.... |
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My Bro-in-law and I go back and forth on this topic all the time. He argues that mechs would never be developed for the following reasons:
1) probably would be mush more expensive than conventional armor
2) gyros notwithstanding, they probably would not be nearly as stable as conventional armor
I, on the other hand, am still hopeful that mechs may someday become reality 
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Nov-2002 13:52 Post subject: RE: Laser Shoots down artillery shell.... |
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I think the only real practical use for a Mech would be Psyhcological(sp?). Anyway As much as I would like to see Mech units I think that they would be much to fragile to be useful. And from a cost stand point you could most likley field 3 or 4 M1 Abrams for the cost of a single mech.
Stinger
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Ares
Clan Jade Falcon
Star Colonel
Joined: 20-Feb-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 06-Nov-2002 15:31 Post subject: RE: Laser Shoots down artillery shell.... |
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Myomers are already in the final stages of R&D as an offshoot of nanotechnology. They found using some kind of wire in a nano-scale cast and pumping it full of electricity can make it flex at extreme strengths. If you were to scale it up, it is prettymuch an exact duplicate of Myomer.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Nov-2002 16:44 Post subject: RE: Laser Shoots down artillery shell.... |
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ah.... the ancient [well not really] questions of mech real life development.
stability: anything thats on legs is less stable then something thats not. and again two legs is less stable then four. BUT with a decrease in stability comes an increase in manuverability. [ie: x-19 reversed wing fighter] plus if you could emulate a large portion of human movement then you could set up a firing position in places standard units couldn't. [ie: hill sides, mountain ravens, ect]
fragility: well, everything is technicly fragile. everything has a point were it breaks and shatters. it the duity of designers to use materials that have a high fragility factor. [ie: armor and chassie] as for copmponet fragility [accuators and joints] this is to be expected with any newly developed machine. the first successful helocopters nearly tore themselves apart, but now can take multiple hits without so much as a shudder. so time will solve this.
cost: well, this one is just plain there. it cost money to develop the componets. the cost to build a prototype. the cost to test, retest, redesign, and again test the prototype. BUT heres the flip side, everything we have now.... had to go thru the same proccess. now will the final product cost more then a tank, possibly and probly very likly but can we really say yes, no.
so, will mechs be a reality someday, most deffintly yes. theres to many people out there that wanna make there own giant robot. so the true question is, will it be the next military wonder weapon?
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CO_17thRecon
Kell Hounds
Major
Joined: 10-Sep-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 06-Nov-2002 18:57 Post subject: RE: Laser Shoots down artillery shell.... |
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I should think it would first be used in mountainous terrain, where wheels and tracks are at a disafvantage.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 07-Nov-2002 05:41 Post subject: RE: Laser Shoots down artillery shell.... |
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A walking unit would certainly have some use, but most likely not as a battlefield unit at first look. The age-old debate of tanks vs mechs does, unfortunately, end with the mechs losing quite badly if we don`t use BattleTech rules  A tank can mount more armor, it`s a more stable firing platform for weapons and it has a lower target profile. I`d think mechs would be used in a utility role, and actually they already are...I`ve seen pictures of a Swedish logging unit that has been equipped with legs instead of wheels, for use in areas where a standard vehicle would only become a terrain feature. I`m certain the link was posted on some mecha related site but I can`t find it on my own system.
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Nov-2002 19:08 Post subject: RE: Laser Shoots down artillery shell.... |
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I agree. Mechs are not a probable course of military design. As you said - a tank's decreased profile, more armor, and greater stability will always make them better units. Especially since decreasing stability does not automatically translate into increased maneuverability, as Vagabond claimed. Plus, with weapon and tracking systems like the one being used against the artillery shell, maneuverability will probably always be secondary to firepower.
The only real use I can see of mechs is for terrain which wheeled and tracked vehicles cannot handle. That will probably limit the size they could take.
The technologies that allow for a mechs existence (minus the magic armor) will probably be put to much more useful work. I have already heard speculation of myomer-like material being used to alter the dynamics and control surfaces of aircraft.
And will you guys get the idea out of your heads that a walking unit needs a 3 ton gyroscope!
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[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2002-11-10 19:09 ]
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: Spain
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| Posted: 11-Nov-2002 11:35 Post subject: RE: Laser Shoots down artillery shell.... |
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Battlemech works in an interplanetary warfare context, in Earth.. maybe as scouts in difficult terrain.
>And will you guys get the idea out of your heads that a walking unit needs a 3 ton gyroscope!
Fine, as soon as you get out of your head the "magic armor" spiel (like that's going to happen anytime soon  )
Do you want me to show you "magic" armor? The Chobham composite stuff used in moderns tanks today, now, that's magic! I cannot wait for that part in the distant future when this stuff will be declassified and made public knowledge, so all of us tank buffs can know how they did the trick...
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
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| Posted: 11-Nov-2002 15:44 Post subject: RE: Laser Shoots down artillery shell.... |
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Fine, as soon as you get out of your head the "magic armor" spiel (like that's going to happen anytime soon )
Do you want me to show you "magic" armor? The Chobham composite stuff used in moderns tanks today, now, that's magic! I cannot wait for that part in the distant future when this stuff will be declassified and made public knowledge, so all of us tank buffs can know how they did the trick...
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You think Battletech's armor is realistic? I don't think so. Dubbing it "magic armor" was not done by me, but by a poster named Cray on the CBT/Sarna boards.
Chobham may be effective, but it certainly isn't Btech level. A maverick or TOW missile will still heavily damage any modern tank on the Battlefield. I don't see that happening in Btech.
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