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| Era Mod for Repair/Maintenance change |
| 1. Keep the Mod |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 2. Remove the Mod |
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57% |
[ 4 ] |
| 3. Up the advanced maintenance mod to -4 |
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28% |
[ 2 ] |
| 4. Alter the length of the maintenance cycle based on activity |
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14% |
[ 1 ] |
| 1, 3, and 4 |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 7 |
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| Author |
Message |
Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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 Posted: 14-Jul-2017 00:00 Post subject: Rule Change Poll - Era Mod for Repair/Maintenance |
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While I like the idea of the Era mods for Repair/Maintenance, they are down right killers. The +3 mod makes keeping ANYTHING running in the 3SW seemingly impossible. A regular Tech faces 9 and 10+ rolls on maintenance rolls (Tech's Base 7 + 1 rating D + 0 quality D + 0 bay + 3 era - 1 advanced maintenance = 10+).
Meaning that on average, each components will fail by 3 which has no effect starting off. But fail by 4 r more and that components quality drops to C (+1 mod) resulting in the roll being 11+. Fail by 5 or more and the component drops to C and is critically damaged.
Once it is C quality, a failure by 4 or more results in a crit while a 5 or more results in a drop to B quality (+2 mod). Once it is B quality, a failure by 3 or more results in a crit while a 6 or more results in a drop to A quality. You just can't keep items running.
But once an item IS damaged, its hard as crap to repair. Lets take the humble Heat Sink. Tech's Base 7 + 1 rating D + 0 quality D + 0 bay + 3 era - 1 repair mod + 0 time mod = 10+. So on an average roll, your team will fail by 3 and partially repair the heat sink (1/2 effect and a drop in quality) while a failure by 4 results in a complete failure.
If you spend extra time on the repair, you can get a -3 time mod for x4 repair time; however, even then you are still looking at a 7+ just to repair a heat sink that was damaged out of combat.
So in the end, you have a 41% chance of damaging a heat sink just for it not being mothballed followed by a 41% chance of needing to replace it. Even if we say you also had a Vet and Elite tech team to follow up, they see a 27% and a 16% chance of failure.
And now that its damaged, you face a 9+ to replace it. Just seems excessive.
Proposed Options:
1. Keep the Mod
2. Remove the Mod.
3. Up the advanced maintenance mod to -4 thus keeping repairs tough but reducing the breakdowns.
4. Alter the length of the maintenance cycle based on activity (#s to be determined). Ex. 30 days per cycle when in transport, 7 days when under non-combat operations (garrison patrols), and 1 day during combat operations.
Please vote.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
[Last edited by Vagabond on 21-Jul-2017 22:29; edited 1 time in total]
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Mekslayer
Clan Wolf
Star Commander
Joined: 30-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 76
Location: United States
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| Posted: 14-Jul-2017 00:40 Post subject: Rule Change Poll - Era Mod for Repair/Maintenance |
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| I am a big believer in KISS.
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Pinhead
The Bloody Clans
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1258
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Jul-2017 14:54 Post subject: Rule Change Poll - Era Mod for Repair/Maintenance |
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Making sure that I get this correct..
If the rolls as you added up come up with a 10+, that mean the tech needs to roll a 10+ on the repair dice?
Using Fenstermaker as an example, he is an 8+ on tech/mech (I assume that makes him average or slightly above average on tech/mech rolls?).. when making a roll does he get one or two dice?
If one dice, then he will fail 1 out of every 3 repairs, which seems awfully high and eventually would make his mech a pile of junk that could neither walk nor move.
If her rolls two dice on the repair, then the averages seem very high, but provide a Gaussian curve instead of a linear failure rate.
_________________
"My Blood is not mine to give, it belongs to my Brothers"
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Jul-2017 16:39 Post subject: Re: Rule Change Poll - Era Mod for Repair/Maintenance |
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| Pinhead wrote: | Making sure that I get this correct..
If the rolls as you added up come up with a 10+, that mean the tech needs to roll a 10+ on the repair dice?
Using Fenstermaker as an example, he is an 8+ on tech/mech (I assume that makes him average or slightly above average on tech/mech rolls?).. when making a roll does he get one or two dice?
If one dice, then he will fail 1 out of every 3 repairs, which seems awfully high and eventually would make his mech a pile of junk that could neither walk nor move.
If her rolls two dice on the repair, then the averages seem very high, but provide a Gaussian curve instead of a linear failure rate. |
The roll is via 2d6 vs TN of 10+ with effects based on MOS/MOF (mod of success/failure) vs Quality.
For a fresh off the factory part with a Quality of D, you can have a MOF of 3 with no effect but at 4 or more (so fail by 4 or more) you loose quality and at 5 or more the component suffers a crit.
Inversely, a MOS of 5 or more improves the quality.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Jul-2017 16:40 Post subject: Re: Rule Change Poll - Era Mod for Repair/Maintenance |
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Extreme Example:
IF Pinhead were in a PnP game, you would use the follow:
These rolls are based upon the formula:
tn = T + R + Q + L + E + O + M.
tn = Target Number.
T = Tech Skill (8+ = 8)
R = Rating Mod (3025 Era Mechs are D, 3050 Era Mechs are E, Vehicles can be C). C is base of 0 with each step hire being +1 and each step lower being -2. Range is A to F.
Q = Quality Mod (Most factory components a Quality D). Quality D is base with each step hire being -1 and each step lower being +1. Range is A to F.
L = Location (Field, Mobile Field, Transport Bay, Maintenance Facility, or Factory). Transport is base of 0 with each step hire being -2 and each step lower being +1.
E = Era Mod. Varies by state and era. Mercs suffer +1 in all era except SW2/SW4 at +2 and SW3 at +3. Jihad is +0. All IS States except DC, FS, and Comstar are SW3 +3 with FS/DC at +2 and Comstar at +0.
O = Optional Rules (Advanced Maintenance)
M = Misc (IS working on Clan, Tech Team Casualties, Planetary Conditions). Ex. Zero-G +2, 2G+ +4, Vacuum +2, Moonless Night +1.
So lets say, your lance is behind enemy lines after getting separated during a recon and have been pushing hard to evade the enemy. Its dark with no moon out and you have found place to hide. Time to do maintenance: 8T + 1R + 0Q + 2L + 3E + -1o + (2 team size of 4 + 1 moonless ) = TN of 16. This would mean EVERY item, weapon, internal location, and armor location would roll versus a TN16 which means with RAW, this unit likely just died as each component that rolls less than 12 will suffer a critical hit.
Thankfully (or unfortunately), MekHQ which I am using only factors in:
tn = T + R + Q + L + E + O + rush job/extra time.
8T + 1R + 0Q + 2L + 3E + -1o + 0 = TN of 13.
Still means any roll of 8 or less is a crit.
Without Era:
8T + 1R + 0Q + 2L + -1o + 0 = TN of 10.
Still means any roll of 5 or less is a crit. Better but still harsh.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Jul-2017 17:37 Post subject: Rule Change Poll - Era Mod for Repair/Maintenance |
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While doing a search of this issue, I encountered a post that alerted me to an optional rule that could solve my issue with maintenance.
You see, Maintenance was primarily designed around a single roll per unit with any damage rolls matched against a table. Thus 1 failure on a Mech dropped its quality and resulted in 1 roll on the Mech table with results like: 1 damaged JJ, 1 engine crit, -1d6 armor to 1 location, or -1d6 armor to 2 locations.
The advanced rules appear to have been designed just as they are, an optional rule. An after thought without much testing. Thus a item failure results in 1 or 2 crits/armor damage. Meaning really, REALLY bad conditions effectively put a unit out of condition in 1 maintenance cycle. MekHQ is currently limited to Advanced Maintenance.
The options in the system are thus:
Only Damage Quality A - A component doesn't suffer damage until its degraded to Quality A. Ex. A quality D item would need a MOF 4, then MOF 5, MOF 6, and then finally a MOF 2 to be damaged.
This would delay the crippling damage by 4 cycles (currently 4x 1 week or 1 month). The backdraw is everything from the factory takes 4 or more cycles to breakdown. However, the longer a unit operates in harsh conditions the closer they approach a massive surge of break downs.
What do people think?
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
Administrator
Joined: 03-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 6087
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Jul-2017 19:52 Post subject: Rule Change Poll - Era Mod for Repair/Maintenance |
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Which book are we using for all of this repair stuff? Since it's all brand new to me, I wanted to have a thorough read-through.
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Mordel Blacknight - Site Administrator
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Jul-2017 23:34 Post subject: Re: Rule Change Poll - Era Mod for Repair/Maintenance |
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| Mordel wrote: | | Which book are we using for all of this repair stuff? Since it's all brand new to me, I wanted to have a thorough read-through. |
StratOps for most of it.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Mekslayer
Clan Wolf
Star Commander
Joined: 30-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 76
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Jul-2017 16:12 Post subject: Re: Rule Change Poll - Era Mod for Repair/Maintenance |
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| Vagabond wrote: | While doing a search of this issue, I encountered a post that alerted me to an optional rule that could solve my issue with maintenance.
This would delay the crippling damage by 4 cycles (currently 4x 1 week or 1 month). The backdraw is everything from the factory takes 4 or more cycles to breakdown. However, the longer a unit operates in harsh conditions the closer they approach a massive surge of break downs.
What do people think? |
I think if Ford or GM made cars that were this prone to failure they would be laughed out of business
Just comes down to rules makers who made rules with brains in power down mode. Things like this just ruin good games. Use brain in powered up mode and solve the problem yourself. Just my .02
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Pinhead
The Bloody Clans
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1258
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Jul-2017 20:11 Post subject: Re: Rule Change Poll - Era Mod for Repair/Maintenance |
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| Mekslayer wrote: | I think if Ford or GM made cars that were this prone to failure they would be laughed out of business
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You do remember the 70s don't you?
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"My Blood is not mine to give, it belongs to my Brothers"
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
Administrator
Joined: 03-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 6087
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Jul-2017 20:20 Post subject: Re: Rule Change Poll - Era Mod for Repair/Maintenance |
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| Pinhead wrote: | | Mekslayer wrote: | I think if Ford or GM made cars that were this prone to failure they would be laughed out of business
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You do remember the 70s don't you? |
You're assuming he's as old as you? 
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Mordel Blacknight - Site Administrator
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Stinger07
The Quickscell Company
Head Engineer
Joined: 11-Mar-2015 09:52
Posts: 265
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Jul-2017 21:44 Post subject: Rule Change Poll - Era Mod for Repair/Maintenance |
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Even I know about exploding Pintos. I'm 26...
Though I live in Michigan and I spent the last half decade working for Ford...
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Mekslayer
Clan Wolf
Star Commander
Joined: 30-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 76
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Jul-2017 22:40 Post subject: Re: Rule Change Poll - Era Mod for Repair/Maintenance |
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Well some of you might forget how cool it was to ride around in a Mustang or Firebird from the 70s, without smog emissions control... pure power to the wheels...
| Mordel wrote: | | Pinhead wrote: | | Mekslayer wrote: | I think if Ford or GM made cars that were this prone to failure they would be laughed out of business
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You do remember the 70s don't you? |
You're assuming he's as old as you? |
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 21-Jul-2017 22:29 Post subject: Rule Change Poll - Era Mod for Repair/Maintenance |
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Ok. I will for this contract be removing the era mod. After, I may try the damage A quality only.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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