|
|
|
Mordel's Bar & Grill |
|
  |
» |
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
|
 Posted: 22-Mar-2002 03:23 Post subject: Tro 3067 teaser |
  |
|
Ok you have given us your take, and we are trying to give you ours.
The need of new mechs for the Clans is VERY LIMITED, while the Inner Sphere may make new was as needed the Clans as a whole won't. Why should they when their Omnis work just fine.
Let me ask this, you build an Omni, get almost done and you have a .5 ton left, BUT no crits, do you start over or do you drop that half ton into the armor?
TO me that would be logical and make the armor modular in the idea that this extra 8 points is going all over the mech if I want it, similar to the fitting of add-on armor to the M113 or the M8 AGS...
How many second line mechs do the Clans need??? It shouldn't be that many because the front line units will be garassioning worlds while not fight...
But you have your opinion on this and I have mine. Seeing that we can both say that they differ...
As for the other stuff, I don't buy the arguement that Scenario packs don't sell, I don't know who came to this conculsion or why but I think they are wrong.
As for the cost of printing a book that has been an excuse FASA gotten into with Nystul around, like his claim that it would have raised the cost of MW3 to $30 bucks to include a page to a page and half of rules to convert MW2 characters to MW3 stats...sorry but I have a friend in the publishing business and it doesn't cost that much, roughly about .30 cent a page and the more you print the cheaper it gets.
Hell I can to Kinkos and copy a book for even less and have them bind it for me...and if they are being nice I can get a color copy of the covers...for few cents more...I should know since I watched a kid copy an entire D&D book at Kinkos a week ago and he spent $8 dollars With a color cover...
So they are finially going back and filling the gaps with the minatures...great...they should have done that to start with...again a weak marketing plan on FASA's part.
As for the input board at CBT, it is still not a 100% open to the fans to talk to FP. All it is and you have stated so, is a reivew of PLANNED products and our comments on that. It's not open to us saying we would like or we want (fill in what ever here). While that may or may not be pratical is up to FP to decice.
And while it's great to see the House Books done up as PDF files, they are NOT updated and that in my opinion hurts the game. Mainly do to the fact that the newer folks have only the breif write ups in the sourcebooks to go one not and I will use your arguement here, in a single source that combines everything they would need to know and the hows and whys and what fors...
We have heard a lot of talk from FP on things, but we haven't seen anything...I think their waiting for GAMA to release the TR is wrong, get it out and the FANS will bagger the hobby and game stores to death on getting, then take it and other things to GAMA and that should work better.
So while you may be happy with things, others aren't and voicing our opinions and such is the only way to get them known.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
|
|
| Back to top |
  
|
ICER
Clan Hell's Horses
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1663
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 22-Mar-2002 10:13 Post subject: Tro 3067 teaser |
|
|
[quote]
On 2002-03-22 03:23, Karagin wrote:
Ok you have given us your take, and we are trying to give you ours.
[quote]
I am not jumping into this arguement. But I do what to tell about my experance with builing clan mechs for my unit
[quote]
The need of new mechs for the Clans is VERY LIMITED, while the Inner Sphere may make new was as needed the Clans as a whole won't. Why should they when their Omnis work just fine.
[quote]
Actully, they do not. As the IS tech imporoves. So does the need for new mechs to meet them. IE:When I started playing. I never did need a ECM on a mech. but with the new C3 and the C3I. the ECM a is a valueable asset
[quote]
Let me ask this, you build an Omni, get almost done and you have a .5 ton left, BUT no crits, do you start over or do you drop that half ton into the armor?
TO me that would be logical and make the armor modular in the idea that this extra 8 points is going all over the mech if I want it, similar to the fitting of add-on armor to the M113 or the M8 AGS...
[quote]
That happens to me all the time. But the designers of a mech would resolve that issue before locking the chassie.
[quote]
How many second line mechs do the Clans need??? It shouldn't be that many because the front line units will be garassioning worlds while not fight...
[quote]
You are thinking like a sphereoid. The clans do things diffrent. We do not recuirt, All of our warriors a canister born. And rasied from birth in sibkos and trianed to fight.
So 13 years ago when the invasion started. we needed more warriors. So the starting to crank out more sibko's.
Now here it is 13 years later. no invasion. but a bumber crop of sibkos. And the idea of waste is so distasteful to the clans. we need to put them somewhere. And the are to green to put in the front line. So we add them to second line units
But that is how my game system works. I currently have 465 warriors in my unit. and a sibko is about to place for rank. I could get another 20 warriors. And I need a place to put them and mechs for them to pilot it. That is reason why I am always forming another second line unit and building mechs.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1864
|
| Posted: 22-Mar-2002 10:55 Post subject: Tro 3067 teaser |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2002-03-22 03:23, Karagin wrote:
Ok you have given us your take, and we are trying to give you ours.
|
|
No problem with that...only I think that you are crying wolf were none exists...
Quote:
|
The need of new mechs for the Clans is VERY LIMITED, while the Inner Sphere may make new was as needed the Clans as a whole won't. Why should they when their Omnis work just fine.
|
|
For the front lines, perhaps...and perhaps they've found holes in their designs and are trying to cover them...
Quote:
|
Let me ask this, you build an Omni, get almost done and you have a .5 ton left, BUT no crits, do you start over or do you drop that half ton into the armor?
TO me that would be logical and make the armor modular in the idea that this extra 8 points is going all over the mech if I want it, similar to the fitting of add-on armor to the M113 or the M8 AGS...
|
|
But the thing is that armor in BTech ISN'T modular, so you WOULD have to go back...
Quote:
|
How many second line mechs do the Clans need??? It shouldn't be that many because the front line units will be garassioning worlds while not fight...
|
|
Well...let's see...how many exist right now?
Counting the 11 from the 3067 TRO, there's 57 plus variants...spread over 19 Clans at one time (not counting the Wolverines into this as they left before most Clan designs came out)...with at least 18 being redesigns of Star League era machines...so, 38 new, Clan-designed from scratch machines (about 2 per Clan on average...not bad), plus you might count the Hellhound/Conjurer as a refit of the Wolverine since they are so similar, so drop that to 37, the Vixen/Incubus is really just an upgraded Wasp and Stinger, so 36, the Galahad/Glass Spider is really an upgraded JagerMech/Rifleman, so 35...and of these rest, many are centuries old, with only about a dozen or so coming off the lines in the past few years...
Compared to those created by the 5 great Houses of the Inner Sphere, I think you'd agree that the numbers aren't all that much...especially spread out over 15 to 19 Clans...
Plus you have to consider how widespread some of the designs are...many are specialist designs and totem 'Mechs that aren't too common in the toumans...
And the Frontliners would hate to have you suggest they are garrisoning anything...that insults their trueborn heritage, you know... 
As for Omnis, by my count, there are 39 frames...one is arti support, so 38 generalist frames...other than the original 16, most are new designs, although some, like the Pouncer and Stooping Hawk were old test vehicles that are now being put into production to cover a perceived hole or by another Clan that its originator...many of these new designs are seen only in one Clan (or at most a relatively few Clans)...looking over the designs, I see only a few that, as you say, do the things that previous designs alread do...among these are the Turkina (does much the same as the Dire Wolf...but the latter is more associated with the Wolves and the Smoked Kitties, so the Jade Falcons could be understood to want their own version), the Blood Asp (does much the same as the Warhawk, but the Star Adders wanted something different than what all the other Clans have), the Cauldron-Born (but it's more effective than both the Hellbringer and the Summoner, at least as far as weapons loadout and armor goes...could it have been going to be a replacement?),and the Nobori-Nin (but it has a far greater weapons loadout than its Nova predescessor....perhaps the Nova Cats decided they needed a replacement for the Nova, eh?)...most of the other designs vary from their closest matches in both speed and armor/weapon loadouts too greatly to be compared...
Plus, as I've mentioned, perhaps some of these are designed to replace older models? I seem to recall you mentioning that US tanks were replaced by M1s? What about all the fighter types we currently field?
Quote:
|
But you have your opinion on this and I have mine. Seeing that we can both say that they differ...
|
|
True...but mine's more correct...why? Because it's me! I'm always right!
Hey...if you're going to have delusions, they might as well be the really satisfying ones, right?
Quote:
|
As for the other stuff, I don't buy the arguement that Scenario packs don't sell, I don't know who came to this conculsion or why but I think they are wrong.
|
|
Perhaps...but I do know that the scenario packs are generally last on my "to get" list...there are around a half dozen to a dozen or so that I still don't have and don't miss not having...
Plus, see a comment of mine below on WotC...
Quote:
|
As for the cost of printing a book that has been an excuse FASA gotten into with Nystul around, like his claim that it would have raised the cost of MW3 to $30 bucks to include a page to a page and half of rules to convert MW2 characters to MW3 stats...sorry but I have a friend in the publishing business and it doesn't cost that much, roughly about .30 cent a page and the more you print the cheaper it gets.
|
|
Over how many thousand books are we talking about printing, and shipping, and...
The costs do add up...I should know...I've seen reports from other places...
Quote:
|
Hell I can to Kinkos and copy a book for even less and have them bind it for me...and if they are being nice I can get a color copy of the covers...for few cents more...I should know since I watched a kid copy an entire D&D book at Kinkos a week ago and he spent $8 dollars With a color cover...
|
|
.....Please...tell me which one and what address? I can get them into ALOT of trouble for copying copyrighted material...both the company and the kid...
You DO realize that is illegal, right? And that the US court systems take a very dim view of it?
Quote:
|
So they are finially going back and filling the gaps with the minatures...great...they should have done that to start with...again a weak marketing plan on FASA's part.
|
|
Aye...but this isn't FASA we're dealing with anymore...I think FanPro is really doing something great here...
Quote:
|
As for the input board at CBT, it is still not a 100% open to the fans to talk to FP. All it is and you have stated so, is a reivew of PLANNED products and our comments on that. It's not open to us saying we would like or we want (fill in what ever here). While that may or may not be pratical is up to FP to decice.
|
|
Precisely...it's their board...Perhaps in the future they can be open to things like this...but for right now, they are still trying to get this whole thing off the ground...
Forgive me for saying so, but you're doing exactly like that old saying...FanPro has given you an inch...and now you're wanting a mile...
Give it time...perhaps once they have things completely under control we can do what you suggest...
Quote:
|
And while it's great to see the House Books done up as PDF files, they are NOT updated and that in my opinion hurts the game. Mainly do to the fact that the newer folks have only the breif write ups in the sourcebooks to go one not and I will use your arguement here, in a single source that combines everything they would need to know and the hows and whys and what fors...
|
|
So, first you all are tired and upset of getting the same material mulitple times and now you want it all over again when you can pick up copies of the FMs and Shattered Sphere or Inner Sphere to get the current info (or as close to current as we have at the moment) and download the House books for the other?
So, you want to pay $20 to $25 or so each for 5 books, rather than $20 for one and download for free? Or rather, from what you said above, you expect them to hire new writers to work on adding to free products, losing money in the process, especially when someone can go on the site and get much of the current history from there?
Oh, ok...
I will admit that I'd like professionally bound hardcopies, but I know many people can't afford all that and are extremely happy that they can get them available for download...
Tell me...if it's so cheap to do this, then why is WotC making old OOP D&D scenarios available for free download rather than reprinting them and selling them? I know they have FAR more capital than FP or WK (at least, I think they do)...if it's not cost effective for them to print an old $5 book, then why should it be cost effective for FP to print an old $20 book?
And remember that D&D's following, at least, AFAIK, is FAR more numerous than BTech...
Quote:
|
We have heard a lot of talk from FP on things, but we haven't seen anything...I think their waiting for GAMA to release the TR is wrong, get it out and the FANS will bagger the hobby and game stores to death on getting, then take it and other things to GAMA and that should work better.
|
|
Where do you see info on them waiting for GAMA to release the TRO? It's already at the printers...it should be on the shelves at any time now...
Please, link me to the post by Randall or Warner or Peter or Jerry about this...I've heard nothing of the sort...
Quote:
|
So while you may be happy with things, others aren't and voicing our opinions and such is the only way to get them known.
|
|
Agreed...but like I said before, I believe you are crying wolf over nothing...
You and cadet and others like you are coming down hard on FP, but have you stopped to consider the following?
1) FanPro took the time to make an English language site, which is regularly updated...
2) Randall takes the time each month (or thereabouts) to issue a statement concerning BTech and time within the months to answer as many questions as he can...
3) Fans have been crying for YEARS to have the Unseen brought back...and now, they are being brought back...perhaps still not image viewable, but they WILL be in the charts and HAVE BEEN upgraded...
4) Fans have been crying for years to have the House books brought back, and here they are, finished, or being worked on as we speak, to be made available for FREE download...they did not have to do this, much less make it free, but they DID...
5) Fans have been screaming for years to have those mecha never before made into mini form made, and here they are...Iron Winds is doing it...
6) Fans have been screaming for years to be allowed to have more input, and here we are, with a Fan Input board...
7) Fans have been screaming for years to have events they can take part in that will help affect the universe...and Monte Diablo was produced...and hints are, there will be more...
All this, and more, has been given to you, and yet you cry out "It's not enough!" "You've shown us nothing!"
FanPro has given the inch they could right now, and you want the whole mile...
Would you like a pound of flesh with that too? 
Ruger
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 22-Mar-2002 11:06 Post subject: Tro 3067 teaser |
|
|
What I want is simple:
Update House Books upto the current timeline.
A stoping of reprinting mechs just to fill a TRO, come up with new ones or don't worry about it, the true BT player will have bought the FM or what not already.
A more open forum to tell FP what we the would like to see or want to see, with in reason. And not have the threads shut down just because some in control disagrees...
Less worry about cost and more worry about quialty...
The Unseen back or pics similar yet different enough to shut HG up.
That's what I want...
As for the rest, I could care less if the kid at Kinkos copy an out of print D&D module form the 80s...heck I have seen dealers sell spiral bound versions of books that have that still original bound...
On you last part, that all wonderful, but so far we have seen no product, other then a few mechs and some art work and someone feels waiting to release something to meet the GAMA time frame is a good idea...why not wait tell GenCon dump all of it on us at once...then everything novel wise would be done and we would then have the whole basket of eggs at once...plenty to keep us busy for a year or two...
So forgive some of us if it sounds like same song and dance we heard from FASA...
OH! I have one other want! BETTER AUTHORS!
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1864
|
| Posted: 22-Mar-2002 11:19 Post subject: Tro 3067 teaser |
|
|
Very well Karagin...I grow tired of arguing the same points over and over...believe what you will, I will believe as I will...
Time will prove which of us is right...
Ruger
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 22-Mar-2002 11:26 Post subject: Tro 3067 teaser |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2002-03-22 11:19, Ruger wrote:
Very well Karagin...I grow tired of arguing the same points over and over...believe what you will, I will believe as I will...
Time will prove which of us is right...
Ruger
|
|
I can see that the idea of folks not swallowing the company line and getting slammed for it hasn't changed any....
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
|
| Posted: 22-Mar-2002 13:41 Post subject: Tro 3067 teaser |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2002-03-22 00:57, Ruger wrote:
Thank you cadet...I really appreciate that...considering I am in essence an employee of FanPro in a non-paid capacity right now as I help moderate the FanPro Classic BTech message board...that statement is really appreciated now...
|
|
Oh give me a break.
You are no more important to the BattleTech line than the janitor that cleans their offices at night.
My gripes are at the management, those people like Bills and Stackpole. The same guys that were in charge at FASA. The truth of the matter is you're just a tool who cleans up their message board for them. You are no more their employee than I am. Can I claim I work for their marketing division if I tell a friend about a great product?
I don't know why the people who run that message board think they are real employees or important to the game. When was the last time you were invited to a planning session for the future storyline?
You volunteer your time to clean up the board so Warner doesn't have to. Don't make it sound so much more epic than it really is.
_________________
I'm not family friendly. That's why I don't post here.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Mordel
Mordel.Net
Administrator
Joined: 03-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 6017
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 22-Mar-2002 13:49 Post subject: Tro 3067 teaser |
|
|
Ok folks, this seems to be getting away from being a discussion and evolving into an argument. I suggest everyone cools things off a bit and let it drop, or I'll be dropping messages...
_________________
Mordel Blacknight - Site Administrator
|
|
| Back to top |
   
|
Clutch
Capellan Confederation
San-ben-bing
Joined: 24-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 38
|
| Posted: 24-Mar-2002 22:00 Post subject: Tro 3067 teaser |
|
|
Hi Folks,
I'd like to volunteer to clear up any misperceptions or questions that need answering.
One caveat though, I'm not going to engage in a rousing game of Stump the Chump. You ask a question, I give you the true and honest answer and then we're done.
Scott "Clutch" Taylor
_________________
"Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse."
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| |
» |
All times are GMT-04:00 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
|
