|
|
|
Mordel's Bar & Grill |
|
  |
» |
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5646
Location: United States
|
 Posted: 25-Sep-2005 03:16 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
  |
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-09-24 23:32, Ruger wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2005-09-24 11:12, Karagin wrote:
Yes they took Terra but it's far from a perfect holding, it has pissed off populus as well as issues ComStar left behind, yet none of this seems to have slowed WoB down.
|
|
Where does it say that Terra has a pissed off population?
Ruger
|
|
I agree with Ruger's question here. It is quite easy to imagine the populace of Terra either: a] not giving a shit or b] falling in line with the WoBie agenda. Terra was for 300 years the heart of Comstar when it was the likes of Waterly or what ever her name was. Coniving and manipulative. Hardly the saviors of the Inner Sphere the way Fotch would have it.
Infact it is very much in line with the BT cannon that not only a few former ComStar personel has seen fit to defect and brake ranks to join the WoBies for the very reason that they did things to old way. Guardians of the Inner Sphere they think not but hunger to bring it under heel the way Blake dreamed they one day would.
So in the end, it is not a stretch to believe that a major part if not the majority of those living on Terra would follow and prefear the old ways and to follow gloriously the teachings of Blake.
Mankind has and will always dislike change. Especially those people who belong to a religious orginization that seeks to maintain the so called status quo of peek of human progress. They would not hungerly seek to change the way Comstar had during the Clan wars.
As for all the rest of the so called plot holes, believed or real, I honestly hold no great opinion. I neither read MWDA timeline material, have not read the pre-source book Jihad material, and do not have the new Jihad source book, which means I do not know anything beyond bits posted here.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
|
|
| Back to top |
  
|
Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
|
| Posted: 25-Sep-2005 05:50 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
|
|
I have only partial info, but from what I know it seems that WoB maybe just masqueraded their forces. I'm talking to really letting THEM to do the work, not just pretending that they done it and the actual attackers were WoB. Actually engaging in these affairs is (or was) grave mistake. WoB would have done better if they maintained neutral status (except usual operations against ComStar (increased amount of operations would be acceptable with all the chaos that would be caused by other action)) and better watched their people. Instead of massive arming focusing on quantity, the should have focused on unquestionable loyalty and quality.
WoB had perfect position for acting like lich in fantasy setting. Not noticed by the others, he can make plots that would take ages to bear fruit, but he stays behind, out of reach. WoB was blessed by starting with loyal and zealous workers and relatively overlooked status, but they rushed their actions and the results came...
_________________
The dragon NEVER sleeps!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 25-Sep-2005 10:42 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
|
|
Go back and read the scenario book about the Battle for Terra, it menations things about attacks on WoB AFTER they took Terra by ComStar rebels as well as other groups ON TERRA.
I also believe the ComStar FM mentions it as well. Hope that helps you and Ruger out.
100 LY around Terra and then all of the other attacks, I doubt Skye would have launched an attack in the FWL just because it was there, if you have forgotten up to this point things were more or less quite, with the Lyrans rebuilding from the Civil War and the Jade Falcon attacks. So why would they attack the FWL...
Sorry but the whole plot line isn't flying and the back story to it has holes you can fly a warship through. But hey if you like it then that is wonderful. I don't like it and I did expect a lot more thought as well as better material for this, not a rehash of Amaris plotline.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
|
|
| Back to top |
|
ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 25-Sep-2005 11:00 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-09-24 20:41, McBride wrote:
The whole Jihad was poorly thought out, and I think it was more TPTB dancing for their new puppeteers at WotC than actually trying to make a believable or even enjoyable storyline.
I agree that there were so many more things that could have been done to move the universe forward, but the way I see it, they simply tried to make the universe fit WotC's new clickytech rather than make that fit the universe.
As for the issues of cost, equipment and manpower brought up, there's no way the WoBblies would be able to amass enough resources in such a short time. If they had all these resources, you'd think they'd be able to do something about the ROM terror attacks on Terra, right? You'd also then think that those same ROM agents operating on Terra would notice something.
What the Jihad reminds me of, actually, is a really bad rehash of the Amaris plot in Star Lord.
|
|
Whats all this WotC crap? They didn't buy FASA WizKids did. WotC was bought by Hasbro, and at that time had purchased TSR among others.
_________________
Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1915
|
| Posted: 25-Sep-2005 12:07 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-09-25 10:42, Karagin wrote:
Go back and read the scenario book about the Battle for Terra, it menations things about attacks on WoB AFTER they took Terra by ComStar rebels as well as other groups ON TERRA.
I also believe the ComStar FM mentions it as well. Hope that helps you and Ruger out.
|
|
A few attacks back then by rebel groups that were probably mostly stamped out long ago does not make for a huge, global spanning, uprising populace...
Especially when you have had 10 years to assimilate them...
Quote:
|
100 LY around Terra and then all of the other attacks, I doubt Skye would have launched an attack in the FWL just because it was there, if you have forgotten up to this point things were more or less quite, with the Lyrans rebuilding from the Civil War and the Jade Falcon attacks. So why would they attack the FWL...
|
|
Ok...I don't have the book, but IIRC from what others have said that do, Skye didn't attack the FWL...the FWL attacked Skye...
I could be wrong though...
Ruger
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 25-Sep-2005 12:23 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
|
|
It's funny, WoB can do no wrong in this new plot line, they have their army, they can attack when and who they want. They have no internal issues, nothing is going against them tell Stone rises up and the IS figures things out but yet they missed everything from the start...things seem way to convient for the WoB.
Terra is their golden egg and no matter what is said to point out problems or issues with that or other issues, some of you defend this crappy and not well written plotline to the point of not listening. You can say I am not listening to the counter arguements or points as well but the point here is that even with what we have things are still not making sense NOR do they give us anything to go on since all was written as newspaper reports, which have their biases and thus really can't be used as facts.
So on that note, the book needed more depth and less flare. It needed to be more informative and less patchworked. We need either true sourcebooks or the novels back to fill in the missing parts. So until then no one has all of the information and each of us is offer his or her opinions on this topic.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
|
| Posted: 25-Sep-2005 12:56 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
|
|
That I can agree with. While I haven't got a copy of the Jihad book, I can glean from comments/info around the net that it isn't set up like any other sourcebook so far. Each sourcebook before was set up as an objective observation of the subject (a stance available to ComStar until recently, which is why the books were always written from a ComStar perpective), whereas the new Jihad book sounds to follow a much different format.
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5646
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 25-Sep-2005 15:43 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-09-25 10:42, Karagin wrote:
Go back and read the scenario book about the Battle for Terra, it menations things about attacks on WoB AFTER they took Terra by ComStar rebels as well as other groups ON TERRA.
I also believe the ComStar FM mentions it as well. Hope that helps you and Ruger out.
|
|
I guess I should state openly then that I haven't gotten a BT Book since Maxtech first released because of my accident and no body to play with.
As for the rebels, i again agree with Ruger. In none of the books I have read and info I have seen has the attacks on Terra been more then light resistence operations. I very well could be wrong; however, as I just said, i only have the few sources. It is my belief that the majority of people on Terra are inline with the WoBie doctrine.
Quote:
|
100 LY around Terra and then all of the other attacks, I doubt Skye would have launched an attack in the FWL just because it was there, if you have forgotten up to this point things were more or less quite, with the Lyrans rebuilding from the Civil War and the Jade Falcon attacks. So why would they attack the FWL...
Sorry but the whole plot line isn't flying and the back story to it has holes you can fly a warship through. But hey if you like it then that is wonderful. I don't like it and I did expect a lot more thought as well as better material for this, not a rehash of Amaris plotline.
|
|
Um, i have to wonder if you even read my post or if you just saved board space by responding to 2 people in one post. I very clearly stated that I know next to nothing about the Jihad plot and therefor have no real opinion about it. If it has plot holes the size of deathstar, i wouldn't know. All I have seen is what has been posted here and obviously the majority of those opininated enough to respond have a biased view that it was a very bad plot, which in fact it may be. I have seen only one person, besides myself on one very minor point, even try to reason some of those pointsa away or make them smaller.
I kinda get the impression that some of the responders are mind set on the whole thing being drivel and unwilling in any way to consider otherwise. But again, it is just my opinion.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
|
| Posted: 25-Sep-2005 16:08 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
|
|
Interesting topic here. Im finding it facinating hearing some peoples views. I quite liked the book for giving a fractured swing on the whole crisis (I think it better emilates what the average person would be thinking). However, glossing over the same information for EVERY major faction gets tedious. Reading in the Davion Section, 'Star league disbanded!' and Liao section 'Star league disbanded!' and the Kuritan section... you get the point.
I really dont think that they will fully explain the event. That way it keeps them clear from having to explain it properly and make potentially more mistakes.
But don't get me started on the Republic of the sphere! And the who thing about that guy deciding that battlemechs should not be used for combat, therefore no wars take place. Sounds a bit like the US saying all Fighter pilots who hand in their fighters (another problem as most people didnt own thier mechs) get a free house and car. Therefore, without Jets, no wars will take place?
At least thats all i gathered from the story before i decided ill stick with classic. Although, to be honest, the whole series seems to be rehashes of the same basic plot. Star league, Amaris plot, Star league, WoB, Republic of sphere, break in comunications- succession wars. 
_________________
Constant exposure to dangers will breed contempt for them-Seneca
|
|
| Back to top |
|
McBride
Draconis Combine
Shujin
Joined: 06-Nov-2004 00:00
Posts: 101
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: 25-Sep-2005 18:21 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-09-25 11:00, ralgith wrote:
Whats all this WotC crap? They didn't buy FASA WizKids did. WotC was bought by Hasbro, and at that time had purchased TSR among others.
|
|
WizKids is owned/run by WotC, which is in turn owned by Hasbro. WizKids is the name that Wizards use for their HeroClicks, BT: DA, and other similar products, while reserving the WotC "brand name" for their other products (D&D, Magic, etc). In short, WizKids and WotC are essentially (not completely) the same entity.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1915
|
| Posted: 25-Sep-2005 18:29 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-09-25 18:21, McBride wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2005-09-25 11:00, ralgith wrote:
Whats all this WotC crap? They didn't buy FASA WizKids did. WotC was bought by Hasbro, and at that time had purchased TSR among others.
|
|
WizKids is owned/run by WotC, which is in turn owned by Hasbro. WizKids is the name that Wizards use for their HeroClicks, BT: DA, and other similar products, while reserving the WotC "brand name" for their other products (D&D, Magic, etc). In short, WizKids and WotC are essentially (not completely) the same entity.
|
|
Actually, IIRC, WizKids has been bought out by Topps...
Ruger
|
|
| Back to top |
|
ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 25-Sep-2005 18:33 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-09-25 18:29, Ruger wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2005-09-25 18:21, McBride wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2005-09-25 11:00, ralgith wrote:
Whats all this WotC crap? They didn't buy FASA WizKids did. WotC was bought by Hasbro, and at that time had purchased TSR among others.
|
|
WizKids is owned/run by WotC, which is in turn owned by Hasbro. WizKids is the name that Wizards use for their HeroClicks, BT: DA, and other similar products, while reserving the WotC "brand name" for their other products (D&D, Magic, etc). In short, WizKids and WotC are essentially (not completely) the same entity.
|
|
Actually, IIRC, WizKids has been bought out by Topps...
Ruger
|
|
Correct, as far as I know WizKids was never owned by WotC... but I could be wrong.
_________________
Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1915
|
| Posted: 25-Sep-2005 18:40 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-09-25 16:08, Wanallo wrote:
But don't get me started on the Republic of the sphere! And the who thing about that guy deciding that battlemechs should not be used for combat, therefore no wars take place. Sounds a bit like the US saying all Fighter pilots who hand in their fighters (another problem as most people didnt own thier mechs) get a free house and car. Therefore, without Jets, no wars will take place?
|
|
While I don't totally agree with the Republic of the Sphere thing, I can somewhat see it...for the most part, these were the worlds hardest hit in the Jihad...some were virtually annihilated...and the Houses are almost bankrupted trying to fight the Jihad...why pay for the rebuilding when you can get rid of these worlds (some of the most troubling in the case of House Steiner and the Skye province) and let someone else do it? Also, not all factions agreed with it...we know that Davion and Steiner mostly agreed to it...House Kurita also agreed, but suffered internal issues...the former FWL disagreed in part, but lacked the resources for the most part to stop the Republic...and the Capallen Confederation fought tooth and nail, but was defeated...
As for disarmament, look to the years following the Great War (WW1) in our own history...most nations thought that would be the war to end at all wars, and were tired of fighting...disarmament was all the rage for the next 10 to 15 years...navies were cut back, infantry units were reduced...hell, the US didn't even research tanks all that much, and our training of the time consisted of using wooden boles to simulate guns and trucks with boards stuck on the side that said "tank"...
The period after the Jihad is like that...
But even so, there are numerous border wars...another DC/Ghost Bear War, wars between the DC and the FS, the JFs and HS, the FS and the CC (the Victoria War), and likely numerous other conflicts...
Ruger
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
|
| Posted: 25-Sep-2005 19:18 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
|
|
So the Great houses and clans still exist?
From the original map on the Wizkids site i can remember it being much smaller than the original classic map. So is the story now completely centred around the Republic?
_________________
Constant exposure to dangers will breed contempt for them-Seneca
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5646
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 25-Sep-2005 20:00 Post subject: RE: Dawn Of The Jihad |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-09-25 19:18, Wanallo wrote:
So the Great houses and clans still exist?
From the original map on the Wizkids site i can remember it being much smaller than the original classic map. So is the story now completely centred around the Republic?
|
|
I think this is a miss conception many people assume. The Republic of the Sphere is only the immediate area surrounding Terra, which was at one point the Terran Hemogony. All the Houses, Clans, and Comstar still exist in MW:DA timeline, they are just not the focus. If you look at the Republic map and then find the outter world on that map on the BT map, it is not that large. considerable in size yes but still small vs the whole.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| |
» |
All times are GMT-04:00 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
|
