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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8052
Location: United States
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 Posted: 15-Aug-2005 08:03 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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On 2005-08-14 13:05, Sleeping Dragon wrote:
If they wanted to make Hatchet attacks less dangerous than they should have increased the difficulty to hit, but not changing the damage table. (Is that grammatically correct?)
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They didn't change the damage table, hatchets and clubs have always hit on the full body table.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 15-Aug-2005 08:05 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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On 2005-08-14 17:02, Warhammer: 3025 wrote:
Perhaps I was mistaken. Perhaps It was the late hour of the post. I wasn't trying to be an ass, simply to get the thread back on track.
The man who started the topic was asking on opinions of one 'mech over another, namely the Hatchetman versus the Axeman versus the Nightsky, not whether axes or melee weapons in general are worth it under the current game rules.
He states in his post that he isn't going to be playing games with the 'mechs, but is writing a fanfiction story. Therefore, the fact that punches are more advantageous than axe-hits is irrelevant. He simply wants to know which 'mech would be best suited to the story he has planned.
I'm sorry if I offended you, Chi.
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While I except your apology, your reasoning is splitting hairs so thin that I doubt it would fly even on boards that have specific rules against thread jacking.
Plus, to be honest about it, it ain't your job to point it out even if it did happen.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 15-Aug-2005 08:26 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Damned translation (or memory  )
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8052
Location: United States
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| Posted: 15-Aug-2005 11:34 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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On 2005-08-15 08:26, Sleeping Dragon wrote:
Damned translation (or memory )
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Lots of players think that hatchets used to hit on the punch table, but they have always been full body. I think players made that assumption because it was a physical attack using the arms and punches were on the (duh!) punch table.
In later additions of the rules it clarfies what table players should be using.
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 16-Aug-2005 07:27 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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To the direct topic: the Hatchetman probably makes more sense from a plot perspective as it is the lightest, oldest, and therefore most likely to belong to Joe-cannon-fodder. It's dependence on ammunition can also serve as an excelent plot point. Recall, he was part of a regular unit not intended for guerilla warfare.
The Axeman would be my second choice for most of the same reasons, but is clearly less so (heavier, more expensive, newer). I honestly don't know much about the Nightsky.
To the more interesting point: hatchets and other melee weapons probably serve the best in tight terrain. I've made good use of them in urban areas (particularly in the jump-equipped Axeman) where mugging a mech with an axe is not only demoralizing, but highly effective.
Which, I think, is the true use of a hatchet. Particularly younger players see one of their mechs get mauled by an axeman and they get skittish. They start rolling badly, they start making obvious mistakes, they go nuts and overheat their mechs, or rather than alpha-strike the single axe-wielding mech, they try to open up the range, allowing the support mechs to get some decent back-shots. It's a powerful demoralizing mech.
That said, it doesn't work forever. The same way modern soldiers flinch the first few times they are under fire, they get used to it and they remember their training. When ambushed, rather than freaking out, they charge. The ambush loses its tactical advantage because it doesn't scare the other soldier and after the initial surprise attack, superior training, weapons, and numbers combine to make ambushes a terrible risk against a well trained infantry force.
But, all of that goes out the window when you see something that defies your training. I once used a TSM sword carrier (a modified Samurai from the custom mechs) to slice a Phoenix Hawk in half. Now, no doubt the PPCs helped in this regard, but the PC players freaked out and retreated, trying to put some distance between themselves and the monster (big mistake). Once they collected themselves, they fanned out and flanked the monster. Again, I tried to cleave a Vindicator in two. The fear and dread was palpable. Even though they had superior positioning (and were experienced players) they were terrified of that mech.
And then I missed. Sword cleaves huge gash in landing field cement, aura of fear is broken, four turns later the Samurai is brough down by a concentrated blast of eight medium lasers in the torso (not all from the same mech, obviously).
Gosh, that was a lot of caveats.
Second point, I deny that kicking is better than punching having lost no less than six matches to people who, once the range closed, punched exclusively. That I could kick and fire my weapons didn't bother them. They took the damage, made the roll, and then crushed my head.
Third Point: the entire game is based on bending numbers to do what we need them to do. Suspend disbelief.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Aug-2005 07:38 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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On 2005-08-16 07:27, SaberDance wrote:
Second point, I deny that kicking is better than punching having lost no less than six matches to people who, once the range closed, punched exclusively. That I could kick and fire my weapons didn't bother them. They took the damage, made the roll, and then crushed my head.
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If you play games with players having 1 or 2 pilot scores kicking loses one of it's primary pluses...if you use 5s like most pilots should have you'll see lots of mechs falling and taking even more damage.
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Pinhead
The Bloody Clans
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1258
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Aug-2005 08:28 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Quote:
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Second point, I deny that kicking is better than punching having lost no less than six matches to people who, once the range closed, punched exclusively. That I could kick and fire my weapons didn't bother them. They took the damage, made the roll, and then crushed my head.
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You are completely correct. The odds and numbers lie. If you got your head crushed by a single punch, you are fighting TSM mechs, which really don't belong in the game as there is no balance at all to the TSM. Even so, a TSM mech kicking doesn't just hurt the leg of its target, it removes it in most cases.
But, I don't want to encourage you to understand the numbers of the game. I'd hate like hell for you to know what you were doing if I ever managed to fight you.
Pin
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 16-Aug-2005 08:47 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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I understand the math, I understand the mechanics, I understand the odds. I'm saying that the 1:6 chance of a head shot with a punch generally has outweighed the easier hitting of a kick.
I'm a level 1 player. These games are played with 5/4 pilots in medium and light mechs. Then again, statistically, my experience probably just means I'm cursed.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8052
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Aug-2005 09:07 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Quote:
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On 2005-08-16 08:47, SaberDance wrote:
I understand the math, I understand the mechanics, I understand the odds. I'm saying that the 1:6 chance of a head shot with a punch generally has outweighed the easier hitting of a kick.
I'm a level 1 player. These games are played with 5/4 pilots in medium and light mechs. Then again, statistically, my experience probably just means I'm cursed.
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I was just at the "I'm cursed" meeting and didn't notice you there.
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Pinhead
The Bloody Clans
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1258
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Aug-2005 13:29 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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I was just at the "I'm cursed" meeting and didn't notice you there.
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Pin
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 16-Aug-2005 18:36 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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My luck with the ladies is equally bad, so I just wrap all my cursed meetings into one big boondoggle at the end of the week.
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DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
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| Posted: 16-Aug-2005 22:57 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Oh, you go to the bars on friday nights, too, huh?
Boy, has this thread made a left turn or what?
As a topical question, how many players design their own mechs and include a hatchet, axe, sword, mace, claw, or TSM?
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Mulkosaur
ComStar
Private, First Class
Joined: 09-Oct-2003 00:00
Posts: 27
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| Posted: 17-Aug-2005 05:53 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Well to the original poster. Hatchetman was first so not fancy on the technology and more common. The Axeman came later on and is a big brother of the Hatchetman, if I recall right the Hatchetman was a proof of concept mech. But don't hold me to it I got holes in my memory from not playing and keeping up.
And the Nightsky is a super cutting edge technology type of mech with the latest and great of everything. In the end I personally still like my old 3025 Banshee with some coverfire punching but that is personal taste.
Mulk
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 17-Aug-2005 14:12 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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For those punch supporters I have something in TRO for you (SHO-1L Shaolin, 60t, one of my strange mechs, tell me what you think ), enough of advertisement
For this purpose I would go for HCT or hatchet Centurion (YLW, 50t, 3025 TRO, I think that no one mentioned this one before) both are quite old and I think easily accessible. Nightsky would be probably found in high profile unit only.
[ This Message was edited by: Sleeping Dragon on 2005-08-17 14:17 ]
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Delta
Lyran Alliance
Leutnant
Joined: 11-Dec-2004 00:00
Posts: 635
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| Posted: 17-Aug-2005 15:54 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Is there any rules for particually sick and twisted mechwarrior using a Buzzsaw, Sword, or Hatchet against infantry? 
[ This Message was edited by: Delta on 2005-08-17 22:06 ]
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