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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8052
Location: United States
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 Posted: 13-Aug-2005 07:01 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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On 2005-08-12 23:03, Delta wrote:
The idea that they can isn't, but the act of doing so usually is (ie, ALL that fire you have to deal with, and any mech that can do a decent physical can't go fast...)
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No, under the rules of the game the fact they can is silly.
Here's why...consider the following hexes clear hexes, and place mechs in them facing the noted directions.
#1-->0101-S
#2-->0102-N
#3-->0103-NE
#4-->0104-S
#5-->0105-N
#1 & #2 declare they will kick each other. #4 & #5 also declare they will kick each other. Now remember, these units are standing in hexes that are 30 meters across.
Now let's show how silly it really is...#3 declares it will punch #2 with its left arm and #4 with its right.
Exactly how do you make that work? #1 and #5 are 120 meters apart, and yet a single mech can punch units that are kicking each.
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Delta
Lyran Alliance
Leutnant
Joined: 11-Dec-2004 00:00
Posts: 635
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| Posted: 13-Aug-2005 09:47 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Yea I forgot about that... 
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DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
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| Posted: 13-Aug-2005 13:10 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Ah, but where is it written that a mech occupies the -exact- center of that 30 meter hex, and thus has to do the splits to kick an adjacent mech?
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8052
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Aug-2005 15:05 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Quote:
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On 2005-08-13 13:10, DarkAdder wrote:
Ah, but where is it written that a mech occupies the -exact- center of that 30 meter hex, and thus has to do the splits to kick an adjacent mech?
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It isn't written anywhere, which makes my example even more implossible...
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Pinhead
The Bloody Clans
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1258
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Aug-2005 20:34 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Quote:
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On 2005-08-12 06:15, chihawk wrote:
It's basic math dude, and takes about a quarter of the amount of time to figure out than it does to say "You can only do one kind of physical attack per turn"
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The whole game is based on basic math..
If you cannot move three hexes, then you are better off standing still unless you can gain some other advantage by moving because you are one worse to hit, than be hit.
One number doesn't sound like much until actually figure out the odds. The winner in a battle is the guy who understands his numbers.
Pin
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8052
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Aug-2005 21:09 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Quote:
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On 2005-08-13 20:34, Pinhead wrote:
[One number doesn't sound like much until actually figure out the odds. The winner in a battle is the guy who understands his numbers.
Pin
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Damn straight...
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 14-Aug-2005 02:14 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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And this thread has been COMPLETELY derailed (shame on you especially, Chi...). 
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8052
Location: United States
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| Posted: 14-Aug-2005 08:27 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Quote:
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On 2005-08-14 02:14, Warhammer: 3025 wrote:
And this thread has been COMPLETELY derailed (shame on you especially, Chi...).
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Excuse me? Who the Hell are you?
And if you're going to be an asshole at least be right.
My first post in this thread:
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On 2005-08-10 15:49, chihawk wrote:
Axes are a waste of space and tonnage on mechs...
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My second post:
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On 2005-08-10 22:44, chihawk wrote:
My kick is one easier to hit, and every time I hit the kick hits your legs. When I hit your mechyou must make a pilot check. I can also fire every weapon I have.
You swing a hatchet and it hits me full body, and you can't fire weapons at me mounted in your arm.
Plus with the weight of the hatchet you have I'll mount an extra LPL or a couple MPL and turn you to slag before you can ever get close enough to hit me.
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My third post:
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On 2005-08-11 06:08, chihawk wrote:
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On 2005-08-10 23:51, bladewind wrote:
Why kick when you can ram ? 
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That's two harder to hit than kicking and you can't fire anything when you declare it.
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My fourth post:
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On 2005-08-11 16:10, chihawk wrote:
A 100 tonner with TSM should be punching anyway...2 1:6 chances to remove the head vs 1 1:36 with the hatchet.
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My fifth post:
Quote:
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On 2005-08-12 06:15, chihawk wrote:
It's basic math dude, and takes about a quarter of the amount of time to figure out than it does to say "You can only do one kind of physical attack per turn"
On the punch table you need a 6 to hit the head, and there's only one 6 on a d6. That makes the odds 1:6
On the regular table you need a 12, which can only be gotten by rolling two 6's, of which we've already determined there's only one 6 per die....as you need two of them it's 6x6, or 1:36.
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My sixth post:
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On 2005-08-12 19:27, chihawk wrote:
The fact that mechs can even physical is silly...
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My seventh post:
Quote:
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On 2005-08-13 07:01, chihawk wrote:
[No, under the rules of the game the fact they can is silly.
Here's why...consider the following hexes clear hexes, and place mechs in them facing the noted directions.
#1-->0101-S
#2-->0102-N
#3-->0103-NE
#4-->0104-S
#5-->0105-N
#1 & #2 declare they will kick each other. #4 & #5 also declare they will kick each other. Now remember, these units are standing in hexes that are 30 meters across.
Now let's show how silly it really is...#3 declares it will punch #2 with its left arm and #4 with its right.
Exactly how do you make that work? #1 and #5 are 120 meters apart, and yet a single mech can punch units that are kicking each.
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My eighth post:
Quote:
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On 2005-08-13 15:05, chihawk wrote:
Quote:
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On 2005-08-13 13:10, DarkAdder wrote:
Ah, but where is it written that a mech occupies the -exact- center of that 30 meter hex, and thus has to do the splits to kick an adjacent mech?
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It isn't written anywhere, which makes my example even more implossible...
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My ninth post:
Quote:
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On 2005-08-13 21:09, chihawk wrote:
Quote:
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On 2005-08-13 20:34, Pinhead wrote:
One number doesn't sound like much until actually figure out the odds. The winner in a battle is the guy who understands his numbers.
Pin
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Damn straight...
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You're reading my tenth in this thread right now.
Perhaps you could point out which post I made that doesn't belong in this thread. Alcyon said s/he liked axes. I posted why I don't like them, and what are better alternatives for them.
In fact, the only post in this thread so far that doesn't have anything to do with axes and their advantages, disadvantages, alternatives, and rules is YOUR'S!!!!
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Pinhead
The Bloody Clans
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1258
Location: United States
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| Posted: 14-Aug-2005 10:15 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Quote:
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Excuse me? Who the Hell are you?
And if you're going to be an asshole at least be right.
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Deeeep breaths!
We well may be adding what we wish when we read his post, but I got more that he was teasing you, not that he was being an ass.
But in terms of axe equipped mechs. Once they removed the ability for an axe to hit waist up (or clarified the rule), axes became weapons of little value.
They make for interesting fiction, as the picture of a 100 ton thing coming at you weilding a volkswagon is rather scary, but in game mechanics, they are less useful than either two punches or a kick.
Pin
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8052
Location: United States
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| Posted: 14-Aug-2005 11:05 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Quote:
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On 2005-08-14 10:15, Pinhead wrote:
Deeeep breaths!
We well may be adding what we wish when we read his post, but I got more that he was teasing you, not that he was being an ass.
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I think you're incorrect. His post, and use of capitals and emoticons, makes his intentions pretty clear.
It's too bad too...if he'd actually read and understood the thread he'd see there's a lot of great information in it.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 14-Aug-2005 13:05 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Let's return to melee weapons. I have some info about swords and axes, but I heard abaut other types (both lvl 3, Solaris I think, quite old, claws (locking on mech) and maces (double Hatchet damage))
And to the normal hit table for melee weapons - it's strange at best, I doubt that mech can lower the weapon to hit legs effectively (it's no Kung-fu fighter, try fighting in corset that doesn't allow you to flex your back, most mechs don't look like they can do it), so Hatchet flying so low would probably miss. If they wanted to make Hatchet attacks less dangerous than they should have increased the difficulty to hit, but not changing the damage table. (Is that grammatically correct?)
[ This Message was edited by: Sleeping Dragon on 2005-08-14 13:06 ]
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DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
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| Posted: 14-Aug-2005 14:31 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Its been a while since Ive seen my Solaris VII rules (Im getting them sent, honest, mister....) but the only rule Ive ever had for swords, Solaris-wise, came from the MW module 'Unbound'. It stated that a mech sword did punching damage, but confered a -2 modifier to the to-hit number due to its reach. Granted, this was printed well before the standard rules for swords was published.
The Claws from the THB are just scary. Mount two of them on your mech, one in place of a hand, that is, grab on to your opponent and cut loose. Theres another MW madule that uses a modified Crusader for just that purpose. Two Claws and a Gawdawfully big number of SRMs.
'Unbound' also had rules for a mech buzzsaw. kind of like a big circular saw. The exact damage it does escapes me at this moment, but I think it was something like 2d6 damage, and used the punching table as well. The flip side to that vicious coin was the blade would shatter if a 2 was rolled to-hit.
Just some extra fuel for this fire.
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
Major
Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 1454
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 14-Aug-2005 16:02 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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'Unbound' also had rules for a mech buzzsaw. kind of like a big circular saw. The exact damage it does escapes me at this moment, but I think it was something like 2d6 damage, ...
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Right: 2D6 damage!
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Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 14-Aug-2005 17:02 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Perhaps I was mistaken. Perhaps It was the late hour of the post. I wasn't trying to be an ass, simply to get the thread back on track.
The man who started the topic was asking on opinions of one 'mech over another, namely the Hatchetman versus the Axeman versus the Nightsky, not whether axes or melee weapons in general are worth it under the current game rules.
He states in his post that he isn't going to be playing games with the 'mechs, but is writing a fanfiction story. Therefore, the fact that punches are more advantageous than axe-hits is irrelevant. He simply wants to know which 'mech would be best suited to the story he has planned.
I'm sorry if I offended you, Chi.
[ This Message was edited by: Warhammer: 3025 on 2005-08-14 17:03 ]
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 15-Aug-2005 05:43 Post subject: RE: Axe-equipped Mechs |
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Using circular saws or chainsaws against armor seems stupid. Against bare flesh it can do mortal wounds but with heavy mech armor ...
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