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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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 Posted: 03-Feb-2005 12:10 Post subject: RE: 3025: which 80-tonner do you prefer? |
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Well, this poll was certainly the least surprising/exciting one. We all know how wonderful the Awesome is. And that both Victor and Zeus have a solid fan-base. And that Charger and Goliath are only die-hard-fan material.
But, if you haven't, please still vote. And we are still waiting on some more insights by Vampire!
jymset, self-appointed moderator for all things 3025 (let the flaming begin  ), signing off
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 912
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 18-Feb-2005 07:24 Post subject: RE: 3025: which 80-tonner do you prefer? |
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Here is the insight you were waiting for 
The Victor is an assault gun like the German Sturmtiger, or the less famous, but more successful Brummbar, it's designed around a huge gun devastating at close range.
It's a vehicle for assaults on fortifications and urban combat, where it excels, but such narrow focus put it at a disavantage in other circumstances.
Briefly, I will comment that the reason of why these AC/20 wielders are meant for the kind of fighting mentioned above it's not just because it's at close ranges, but because when firing high explosive shells instead of armor piercing they are terrific bunker busters, or for demolishing buildings.
The trouble with the Victor is that for the most part it doens't do anything that a Hunchback cannot do , it has a slight increase in firepower and armor and jump jets. These are an advantage, but overrated. If you think jump jets give an advantage in forests, cities and other confined terrain, you are missing the point. If the terrain is so difficult that you have to jump around, then probably it was a mistake getting there in the first place.
Likewise, jump jets are not that much of a help in a city. If the buildings are low enough to jump over them, then they aren't tall enough to provide cover to your 'Mech, and the Victor is one of the tallest 'Mechs mind you. And few buildings other than a concrete bunker can stand the weight of 80 tons.
In the urban canyon of multistory buildings (and these need not be skyscrapers, think of the typical appartment block 10 stories tall) a jump jet 'Mech holds no advantage over one that lacks them.
The real reason for the Victor having jump jets is combat drops from Dropships. The Victor is to put some backbone in the initial landing formations wich are usually made of light and medium 'Mechs wich lack in armor and firepower. The Victor mission is to clear hot drop zones, where the fight is confused and at close ranges. One typical scenario is that the enemy reaction to a drop is with light speedy units that are the first to arrive to the DZ, and the Victor can keep them at bay, because there's no way they are going to close to this monster. The final task would be mopping up pockets of resistance bypassed by the lighter units to clear the ground for the Dropship landing.
So the Victor has indeed a function other than being a big gun on legs.
The overall evaluation is that like all the AC/20 carriers is an "all or nothing" affair. Either you sweep everything , or are ignominiously destroyed before getting close enough to shot.
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Memento audare semper
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Karl Hendricks
ComStar
Corporal
Joined: 15-Feb-2005 00:00
Posts: 79
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| Posted: 18-Feb-2005 11:37 Post subject: RE: 3025: which 80-tonner do you prefer? |
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| i personally like the goliath.But then i like all quad mechs.I like its ranged firepowe.back it up with a heavy for close range, and this thing will reach out and touch you.
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Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
Joined: 04-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 976
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 18-Feb-2005 20:15 Post subject: RE: 3025: which 80-tonner do you prefer? |
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Good one Vampire.
Especially about the hot dropping
_________________
"My job is to keep the majority of people in this country alive. That's it. If fifty-one percent eat a meal tomorrow and forty-nine percent don't, I've done my job." - The Beast (AKA The President), Transmetropolitan
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bladewind
Free Rasalhague Republic
Major General
Joined: 02-Oct-2004 00:00
Posts: 1054
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 18-Feb-2005 20:49 Post subject: RE: 3025: which 80-tonner do you prefer? |
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nice analogy for the hot dropping.
Personally, i feel if the Victor is slower, it can do more but if its slow, it loses its personality imo.
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 19-Feb-2005 09:34 Post subject: RE: 3025: which 80-tonner do you prefer? |
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-18 07:24, Vampire wrote:
Here is the insight you were waiting for
The trouble with the Victor is that for the most part it doens't do anything that a Hunchback cannot do , it has a slight increase in firepower and armor and jump jets. These are an advantage, but overrated. If you think jump jets give an advantage in forests, cities and other confined terrain, you are missing the point. If the terrain is so difficult that you have to jump around, then probably it was a mistake getting there in the first place.
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That all depends...if you've got a Victor in a forest and you manage to tear up an enemy who ventured in there without having jump jets, the mistake wasn't on your part
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"The enemy's gate is down."
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 912
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 22-Feb-2005 03:06 Post subject: RE: 3025: which 80-tonner do you prefer? |
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And here comes the final post in this series:
Of all the 'Mech listed, Zeus is my favourite, I'd love to have a lance or company of Awesome on my side, but it's too specialized for my taste. The Zeus is more versatile
The Zeus is like the russian Klimenty Voroshilov KV1 tank or the British Churchill, excellent armor (or at least it was excellent, read on), good mobility and relatively undergunned for its weight. Though the complaint about weak firepower it's not the Zeus fault, but rather bad rules that seriously screw with autocannons, once changed the damage to 7 points, the overall firepower is decent enough, though slightly below par.
Even without changing the rules, it's not a serious flaw. Let's face it, in 3025 the Zeus it's the only assault 'Mech to appear in significant numbers in the battlefield. To the lighter Kurita and Marik units the Zeus is the juggernaut that the KV was to the Panzer III
In fact the Zeus is matched only by newer heavy 'Mechs with a great emphasis on firepower like the Warhammer and the Marauder (in keeping the analogy, think of them as Panzer IVs and Panthers, though on a side note, I think the Warhammer resembles the late T-34 with 85mm gun)
Notice I said "newer". I'm going to do an aside here. It's worth nothing that the Zeus is one of the oldest 'Mechs in existence. Though some of the dates in 3025 TRO are erroneous, the Zeus must be of early 2500s vintage. It must be remembered that the 'Mechs of the Succession Wars are so wildly diverse because they are a hogdgepodge of museum relics, mothballed obsolete designs and survivors from about 2 centuries of 'Mech development (2550-2750) the great equalizer was the technological decay that doomed to extinction the advanced machines and left the Successor States with a handful of obsolete design templates that still could be built with the available technology.
The people of the 31st century are used to this incongruity as the natural order of things, and don't even spare a thought on it, never wondering about why their 'Mechs look so different, but to a Star League denizen, the 'Mech forces would look as anachronic as it would be, using another historic example, seeing a Macedonian Phalanx fighting against Swiss pikemen, the weapons, tactics and technology are basically the same but the contrast is odd.
The analogy comes back full circle. The Zeus is not that good of a design, in fact it was obsolete, but the Lyrans were stuck with it because they couldn't keep building anything better.
Like the KV1, the Zeus was surpassed by newer designs, such as the Warhammer and the Marauder. In its time, the Zeus was top of the line (let's remember that the venerable Thunderbolt started out as an Assault 'Mech) , the Zeus once mighty armor for the standard of its days it's now weak when compared with latter designs, and it's weaponry has fared even worse. The myth of the Lyran superiority in Assault 'Mechs has more to do with the Atlas built at Hesperus II than with the Zeus, wich is more of an average heavy 'Mech.
What the Zeus lacks in quality makes up in quantity, and logistics superiority, because it's still in production, there are not only more Zeus around than what equivalents the Lyran's enemies can field, but they are also in a better shape having a reliable supply of spares.
Overall a decent reliable 'Mech of average performance, not the best of its kind but solid enough to build a force around it.
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Memento audare semper
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Beebles
Kell Hounds
Lieutenant
Joined: 12-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 209
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: 22-Feb-2005 06:19 Post subject: RE: 3025: which 80-tonner do you prefer? |
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well Its not 100% clear to me why, but I'm drawn towards the awesome.
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too lazy to make a sig...
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Khayman
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Corporal
Joined: 14-Nov-2004 00:00
Posts: 91
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| Posted: 14-Mar-2005 02:40 Post subject: RE: 3025: which 80-tonner do you prefer? |
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| I almost chose the Awesome as well, but decided against it for the AC/20 with jump jets.
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 14-Mar-2005 17:03 Post subject: RE: 3025: which 80-tonner do you prefer? |
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Good choice Khayman! 
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If ignorance is bliss, then why are you so miserable?
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