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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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 Posted: 17-Aug-2002 23:23 Post subject: RE: Ideas on where WoB is getting the manpower... |
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Thanks for the input...I asked the question the way I felt would get a better responce.
Again that you for your input on the topic and I will file it with the other responces and add it to the notes to compare things with.
Again thank you.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Øystein
Capellan Confederation
Shia-ben-bing
Joined: 03-Aug-2002 00:00
Posts: 9
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| Posted: 20-Aug-2002 16:03 Post subject: RE: Ideas on where WoB is getting the manpower... |
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On 2002-08-06 12:54, Karagin wrote:
How many merc units are in the employ of WoB? Does anyone know?
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Unknown, but they were heavily recruiting on Galatea before and during the FedCom Civil War.
Øystein
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Øystein
Capellan Confederation
Shia-ben-bing
Joined: 03-Aug-2002 00:00
Posts: 9
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| Posted: 20-Aug-2002 16:07 Post subject: WoB holdings. |
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On 2002-08-06 08:08, Karagin wrote:
Where? And when? They hold two planets, Terra and their land holds on Gibson...now where are they getting the troops from? Clone labs?
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The Word of Blake holds at least 6 planets, not counting their Gibson land holds.
Terra
Caph
Keid
New Home
Bryant
Episilon Eridani
The WoB takeover of those worlds was mentioned in "Imminent Crisis".
Also that several ComGuard units went over to the WoB militia during the civil war, after seeing ComGuards being unable to stay neutral in the conflict.
Øystein
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Aug-2002 16:23 Post subject: RE: WoB holdings. |
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Righ and with this they can take the whole of the former Terran worlds...what ever.
I don't believe they and nothing is going to change that until ALL the facts NOT in the source books are out for all to see.
Next topic.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Warner
Clan Nova Cat
Oathmaster
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 175
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| Posted: 21-Aug-2002 14:28 Post subject: RE: WoB holdings. |
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On 2002-08-20 16:23, Karagin wrote:
Righ and with this they can take the whole of the former Terran worlds...what ever.
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He didn't say that. I believe that you may be under the impression that the Blakist take all the Hegemony worlds and defeat the armies of the Inner Sphere including the Clans. If that is your understanding and belief then your impression and belief is completely wrong. Your answers were on the ComStar site if you read the entire site of what they did and how long they took to do what they did.
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I don't believe they and nothing is going to change that until ALL the facts NOT in the source books are out for all to see.
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Ah.. so you are going to be like the doubting Thomas then?  Come on Eric I know you know what has been said how and why the Wobbies are doing is possible. Some one that is astute as you are who knows the source books as well as you are suppose to cannot simply make a statement like that. I believe you are just being contrary to keep up your image!
This was kind of belittleing and condescending remark you made here. Dismissing someone as if they didn't matter. That's not very socialable nor does it promote the spirit of debate! As my daughters are prone to saying.. "You be ashamed!"
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As always, enjoy!
Warner Doles
"Who am I? I am the right hand of fiat, tormentor of souls, death incarnate, and the last living writer you will ever see. Randall sent me."
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 21-Aug-2002 14:46 Post subject: RE: WoB holdings. |
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Like I said I don't believe they have the money or the manpower to pull it off and seeing how you are not going to see my side of this it's time to move on before it get's heated.
So next topic please.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
[ This Message was edited by: Karagin on 2002-08-21 14:48 ]
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Kyu Kage
ComStar
Captain
Joined: 16-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 503
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| Posted: 16-Sep-2002 01:31 Post subject: RE: Ideas on where WoB is getting the manpower... |
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They recruited the ephemeral Clan Wolverine
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Loyalty above all else except honour!
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Sep-2002 13:46 Post subject: RE: Ideas on where WoB is getting the manpower... |
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Quote:
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On 2002-09-16 01:31, Kyu Kage wrote:
They recruited the ephemeral Clan Wolverine
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I think it is best to let this topic die...so please let go before it gets heated again and we have minor comments and less thinking on both sides of the issue.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Sep-2002 07:32 Post subject: RE: Ideas on where WoB is getting the manpower... |
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Gunslinger makes some excellent points. The WOB takeover of those planets mentioned by Oystein also is relavent. I tend to lean toward the Yes, WOB can accumulate the resources. they have had since 3057 to do so.
Terra being "Mined out" is laughable. The asteriod belt has enough stuff in it to make the star leaue army several hundred times over. There is a NASA study I read that stated there is enough material there to make space habitats with habitable space equal to 10 thousand times that on earth. I doubt that they have run thru that.
The planets that WOB occupied are old hegemony mech production worlds. they are either looking to deny them to the houses, or to enhance their production. even tho' the factories are said to be ruins in fluff, are they? if so, for how long? It took the USA 1 year to build the Willow Run plant that was producing 50 aircraft weighing 30 tons per month at the end of a 1 year start up period.
I like the covert gathering of resources.I would end to doubt it though. The covert gathering of kids would work, they tend to move themselves. How many orphans were made by the Civil War? How much real effort would it take to get these kids to hate the Houses? They do not have to love blake, just hate the houses, the ones that come to love blake would be promoted or moved to a less "expendable" job, eh?
I do agree that WOB would not be able to maintain a stable territory tho' their "true Beliver" fanatisiscm would evenyually have several factions arguing and fighting with each other. They purged the stabilizing Comstar moderate from their ranks, this was an error. kind of like removing the cellulose from nitrocellulose. you end up with nitro, which is very unstable.
WOB might conquer, but wouldn't hold. they would be an explosion that would serve to violently rearrange everything. That is what needs to be done to get Darkage.
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Life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease.
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Goose
ComStar
Lieutenant, JG
Joined: 23-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 287
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| Posted: 24-Sep-2002 19:47 Post subject: RE: Ideas on where WoB is getting the manpower... |
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I ain't worried about what the WoB can take and hold; It's what they smash so that noone else can use aganst them that worries me.
If you where going to take over the univers with a supprise attack, wouldn't you hold a couple of stratigic raid on the big indistry planets and nuke them? How hard would it be to have at lest one nuke per planet go off at the same time, taking down some military-indistrial target? What whould that do to any counter-attack you would have to look forward to?
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Goose
I have no Forum, and I must Post
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Peter_Smith
Capellan Confederation
Yi-si-ben-bing
Joined: 25-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 122
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| Posted: 25-Sep-2002 17:07 Post subject: RE: Ideas on where WoB is getting the manpower... |
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Quote:
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On 2002-09-24 19:47, Goose wrote:
I ain't worried about what the WoB can take and hold; It's what they smash so that noone else can use aganst them that worries me.
If you where going to take over the univers with a supprise attack, wouldn't you hold a couple of stratigic raid on the big indistry planets and nuke them? How hard would it be to have at lest one nuke per planet go off at the same time, taking down some military-indistrial target? What whould that do to any counter-attack you would have to look forward to?
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Ask the people left alive on Outreach (there have to be a few left). The WoB slammed them with 300 nukes, some surface penerators and some air/ground burst.
And that was just one planet...
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The_Nice_Guy
Capellan Confederation
San-ben-bing
Joined: 19-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 10
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| Posted: 06-Oct-2002 04:26 Post subject: RE: Ideas on where WoB is getting the manpower... |
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Well, they don't need to nuke everything, just the things that allow their enemies to oppose them.
For example, if they can remove transport assets completely, all the gazillion regiments on the ground in the Houses are going to have a tough time getting to Terra. And then the Wobbies can eliminate or neutralize targets at their own leisure.
Adequate jumpship transport were such a big issue in the FC Civil War, and that would not have changed for the jihad.
So how did Devlin "Superman" Stone get enough troops AND transport for his campaign, hmmm?
One impossibility is fine. Two, digestible. But when a story seems to rely on nothing BUT impossibilities to advance the plot, like the new timeline(forced relocation, citizens accepting their fate, Clanners making a deal with Stone!!!), it just leaves a bad taste in the mouths of many players and fans.
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js
Federated Suns
Sergeant-Major
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 125
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| Posted: 08-Oct-2002 03:25 Post subject: RE: Ideas on where WoB is getting the manpower... |
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Quote:
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On 2002-10-06 04:26, The_Nice_Guy wrote:
One impossibility is fine. Two, digestible. But when a story seems to rely on nothing BUT impossibilities to advance the plot, like the new timeline(forced relocation, citizens accepting their fate, Clanners making a deal with Stone!!!), it just leaves a bad taste in the mouths of many players and fans.
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What impossibilities? If you live in a place with a ruined economy or ecology, wouldn't you jump at the chance to emigrate? Furthermore, back in 3025 they used to say things were like in the Middle Ages - nationalism didn't exist and people didn't care too much if their planet changed rulers. This theme still crops up in the sourcebooks from time to time. Only the novels emphasize nationalism (Stackpole started it, but Coleman has been the worst so far). That takes care of the first two "impossibilities" you listed.
As for the third, we have no idea of the nature of the deal the Wolves made with Stone, so it is far too early to pass judegement on it. We do, however, know that the Clans in the IS are becoming more and more "corrupted" by the IS the longer they stay.
I really think it is too early to pass judgement on the MW: DA timeline. We know very little about what happened and nothing about how it came to happen. It might be ridiculous, but then again it might not. We quite literally cannot know at this time.
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Bear
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Recruit
Joined: 11-Oct-2002 00:00
Posts: 4
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| Posted: 11-Oct-2002 09:20 Post subject: RE: Ideas on where WoB is getting the manpower... |
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Please people, I am so sick of hearing people try to explain away inconsistancies. It is the job of the author and writers...the very creators to do this and quite clearly they have not.
When something...like one or two implausabilities are used then it is a clear sign something drastic has been done to altewr their OWN framework for their own reasons...most likely in this case buissness ones.
Yes the CBT universe politics and SL have always been a little tough to grasp and yes we have not always agreed with them but this time they have gone against thier own format.
The Emperor has NO Clothes.
If the Wobbies can muster this many troops(which was correctly pointed out not all were FRONTLINE Soldiers and troopies..there have to be manufacturing and support personel...medics, engineers...etc. so it does limit the number of troops..I notice that part of the earlier thread was ignored) so can the IS...no matter the Civil War...the scope of the planets they are responsible for is ten fold over the Wobbies, Add in the Elite Merc forces out there and then try to turn Green troops and their leaders(who trained them...yes they can be taught by the best but the experience of livefire can only be experienced not taught...jeez), virtually untried when you compare the battlefield experience gained by DC LA and FS troops not to mention the CLANS.
And I have heard enough of the Nuke crap. Does no one read the SB's??? Does no one remember the orbital coverage around OUTREACH??? In case you think I am speculating...just ask the late troops that were aboard WANNAMAKER'S WIDOWMAKERS. That was just one dropship offcourse and no commo's.....POW BANG ZOOM...dust.
i think it logical to assume that atleast the Capitol worlds of the Clans in the occupied zones would be a little more cautious not to mention war torn but paranoid vets of ...um say Operation Bulldog...the 5 or 6 waves of the FEDCOM Civil war...just to name a few. (Experience is a fantastic teacher...keeps you alive)
The Jumpships and their dropships carrying the nukes would be stopped ...or challenged...any Nuke fired from outside orbit could be intercepted.....whether by Aerospace or other missles designed to shoot orbital craft...um..then there are lasers...hmm I think they might be brought to bear...by many different options and that could screw up any inbound warhead's day.
Surprse only works once in an action like this. Or are we to believe that Comstar was napping while the Wobbies sleeper agents , unlike theirs on Tera who MUST have all been napping allowed them to sabotage all HPG in the old Teran Hemogeny Zone . Nonsense.
The question of their manpower is not in doubt for me...They can raise plenty...plenty enough to pull it off on this scale...this fast, against foes who are better trained...more experienced (most likely...take this from an actual combat Vet who has seen fire...this counts) I think not.
I am sure they have enough money to make the attempt...even raise alot of men but not enough to do something like this successfully.
However it is not the true crime here, the worst is those who have accepted this and try to justify it..... doing the work for those have done it badly.
Face it the storyline is weak....it needs a lot of backstepping now to bring it up to the standards they once set. I say let them justify it...let them explain it and then I will judge it ...for my own opinion, before I finally decide I intend to wait for the rest...but as it stands now...it needs a lot of work.
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bandit
Clan Nova Cat
Star Colonel
Joined: 21-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 474
Location: Italy
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| Posted: 11-Oct-2002 09:54 Post subject: RE: Ideas on where WoB is getting the manpower... |
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...a little bit complicated for me
exoplain ideas...about this
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