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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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 Posted: 29-Jun-2002 05:35 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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Get rid of God, get rid of the Ten Commandments every last Western legal system is based on.
Thou Shalt Not Steal, Thou Shalt Not Kill, obviously these are evil religious statements, they must be removed from American life and from American minds. We just can't allow future generations to grow up thinking such prejudicial religious thoughts.
Absolutly everything, every last ideal and principle we have that has made us the flat out greatest and most moral nation on the face of the earth was derived from Christianity, its ideals, its rules, its expected standards of behaviour.
Like it or not, if you cut that out, destroy all mention of God in public life, strive to make sure that word is forbidden in the minds of the young in our schools, then this place will be America in name only from that point on.
Earlier tonight I was watching Fox News and saw a poll taken among American college students. One question asked if they would submit to a military draft if needed to fight the war against world terrorism.
A third of them said they would be draft dodgers, another third said they would only serve their country if they never left the US while doing so. Less than a third said they would answer their country's call.
Among other poll questions, about the same two thirds of American college students don't think they live in the best country in the world.
All this business of athiests attacking God just goes back to one of the world's greatest and harshest truths.
Great nations are not destroyed by external enemies. They destroy themselves.
Oh yeah, about the greatest nation business. If we're not the best country, why is half the planet trying to live here instead of in their own country? I don't see no millions of people sneaking into China, Mexico, or France every year, do you?
About the most moral nation. Name the only nation in all of human history that has fought a bitter civil war that eneded the practice of slavery within its own borders? That was us.
Name the only major power in human history that fought the biggest war this world has ever seen and then spent liberally of its own money and treasure to rebuild its shattered enemies into major economic powers capable of competing in the world economy frequently to the detriment of their former enemy. That's us too.
Name the African and middle eastern non-Israeli nations in which forms of slavery and slave markets can still be found today. All of them. Except possibly Jordan.
More and more often I think we need McCarthyism back again.
Back when McCarthy happened, that guy was lying about his list of enemies who wanted to destroy us from within. He was just waving blank sheets of paper in front of the cameras. But we all know that today we could assemble reams of printed lists of such enemies among us infesting our government, institutions of education, and society in general, and it would be the truth.
Oh, yeah. I am not a churchgoer. Normally I only go to a church for a wedding or a funeral. But I am not so stupid as to think America can exist without God in it.
Name any belief system that can replace Christianity in America and do half as good a job of making and keeping this nation the best fed, most technologically advanced, and most prosperous country on the face of the Earth.
There aren't any.
[ This Message was edited by: Gunslinger Patch on 2002-06-29 05:43 ]
_________________
"Those who beat their guns into plows will plow for those with guns..." -Thomas Jefferson
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CampingCarl
Free Worlds League
Master Sergeant
Joined: 24-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 176
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Jun-2002 10:26 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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| Technically "under god" is in violation of the constitution because people have to say it being sworn it, pledge, ect. The part that was added by Congress should be taken out as well as use in court. What if a Hindu was being sworn in? Would he have to tell the truth? I dont have a problem with the currency as has no effect its use.
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Black_Phoenix
Clan Nova Cat
Star Colonel
Joined: 23-Jun-2002 00:00
Posts: 382
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| Posted: 29-Jun-2002 12:52 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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On 2002-06-29 10:26, CampingCarl wrote:
Technically "under god" is in violation of the constitution because people have to say it being sworn it, pledge, ect. The part that was added by Congress should be taken out as well as use in court. What if a Hindu was being sworn in? Would he have to tell the truth? I dont have a problem with the currency as has no effect its use.
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The only problem is, "Under God" would not be a violation of the constitution, if the framers had put something about it in. The only reason people can side-step the fact that this country is based slightly on religion, is because there is nothing about it in the constitution. And the only reason this subject was brought up was because there was one more person that failed to have any pride in the religous past of his country. And he did not need to be religous to take pride in it either. I am proof of that. I am not religous, but I still approve of the religous past of this country.
(Okay. I am done ranting. I feel better now.) 
_________________
History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.
-Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Jun-2002 23:03 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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On 2002-06-27 21:57, Raven! wrote:
Well done old dog, you summed up my views perfectly! I might even forgive you for the Walco story you wrote 
Onto Karagin, what was the point of the last statement?????? It completely went over my head.
Raven, confused!
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Never Watched Monty Python have you....
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Jun-2002 23:05 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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On 2002-06-29 02:27, Gangrene wrote:
My turn to weigh in. First a couple of side topics:
Raven, I think Karagins last line is a reference to a B grade Monty Python film called something like "The Meaning of Life."
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B grade? Okay sure...right and that's like saying STARSHIP TROOPERS was the best scifi movie ever...not.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Jun-2002 23:08 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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On 2002-06-29 10:26, CampingCarl wrote:
Technically "under god" is in violation of the constitution because people have to say it being sworn it, pledge, ect. The part that was added by Congress should be taken out as well as use in court. What if a Hindu was being sworn in? Would he have to tell the truth? I dont have a problem with the currency as has no effect its use.
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They have it set up in the court that you swear or AFFRIM, thus he would since he would affrim to be telling the turth, thus tossing it out would benifit who?
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Ares
Clan Jade Falcon
Star Colonel
Joined: 20-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 737
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| Posted: 29-Jun-2002 23:56 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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Hey, SST is one of my favorite movies of all time! The CGI series ruled even harder!
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I have the right to remain silent. Anything I say will undoubtedly incriminate me.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 30-Jun-2002 00:02 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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For those who don't understand the Pledge's history, here is the rather sordid truth behind it:
The Pledge of Allegience was first written by Francis Bellamy, a Baptist Minister. He was kicked out the church for defending the same ideals of Jesus and giving Christian-socialist sermons. Bellamy wanted an oath that defended the ideals of Utopian Socialism.
The original text read: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." He wanted it to read, "with liberty, justice, and equality for all," but was pressured into removing "equality" for fear that the schools would ban the Pledge for implying blacks were equal to whites.
The use of "my Flag" was intentionally used to allow anyone to pledge any flag they wished.
In the 1920's, in the backlash among the wealthy elite of American society against the October Revolution, the Pledge was transformed into a symbol of chauvinism. A campaign begun by the American Legion and the KKK was well received by the government. The pledge was made compulsory, and the words were changed to read, "I pledge allegience, to the flag, of the United States of America." The change was meant to teach children to always obey the laws of the United States (without question). The enforced manner or reciting the pledge was to imitate the traditional Roman hail, to hold your right arm out and rigid and shoulder high. This was changed to a hand over the heart after the same practice was adopted by Nazi youth to pledge allegiance to a different country.
Bellamy lived to see the Pledge transformed into KKK endorsed oaths of chauvinism, and was horrified at it.
In the 50's, as further reaction to the Soviet Union and the "godless commies," the words "under God" were added. Bellamy's granddaughter noted that he would have been equally horified to have the pledge endorse religion. The purpose of the addition was explicitly to promote religion.
Sources:This was compiled from several sources. One was http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jun2002/pled-j28.shtml. The other was from http://www.vineyard.net/vineyard/history/pledge.htm (this history of the pledge can be found on many web sites, not just this one).
_________________
Lawyer: "Now sir, I'm sure you are an intelligent and honest man--"
Witness: "Thank you. If I weren't under oath, I'd return the compliment."
[ This Message was edited by: Nightmare on 2002-06-30 00:03 ]
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A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Jun-2002 04:06 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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On 2002-06-29 23:05, Karagin wrote:
B grade? Okay sure...right and that's like saying STARSHIP TROOPERS was the best scifi movie ever...not.
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You're right, B grade is too good for it. Starship Troopers was B grade, The meaning of Life is more of a D grade movie.
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Gangrene
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AcidQueen
Capellan Confederation
Si-ben-bing
Joined: 22-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 96
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| Posted: 30-Jun-2002 05:55 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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Good for the Nixon-appointed judge, I say.
AQ
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What part of "LEAVE ME ALONE" is so hard to understand?
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Jun-2002 12:06 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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A couple things, Nightmare:
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He was kicked out the church for defending the same ideals of Jesus and giving Christian-socialist sermons.
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The Christian God is not a socialist, and doesn't subscribe to any "ism." Those are all human institutions.
As for the rest of it, if you're trying to point out that in its original form the pledge needed a little work then OK. But none of that really effects the fact that adding "under God" is not unconstitutional.
_________________
Gangrene
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2002-06-30 13:05 ]
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Gangrene
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Jun-2002 12:06 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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Quote:
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On 2002-06-30 00:02, Nightmare wrote:
For those who don't understand the Pledge's history, here is the rather sordid truth behind it:
The Pledge of Allegience was first written by Francis Bellamy, a Baptist Minister. He was kicked out the church for defending the same ideals of Jesus and giving Christian-socialist sermons. Bellamy wanted an oath that defended the ideals of Utopian Socialism.
The original text read: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." He wanted it to read, "with liberty, justice, and equality for all," but was pressured into removing "equality" for fear that the schools would ban the Pledge for implying blacks were equal to whites.
The use of "my Flag" was intentionally used to allow anyone to pledge any flag they wished.
In the 1920's, in the backlash among the wealthy elite of American society against the October Revolution, the Pledge was transformed into a symbol of chauvinism. A campaign begun by the American Legion and the KKK was well received by the government. The pledge was made compulsory, and the words were changed to read, "I pledge allegience, to the flag, of the United States of America." The change was meant to teach children to always obey the laws of the United States (without question). The enforced manner or reciting the pledge was to imitate the traditional Roman hail, to hold your right arm out and rigid and shoulder high. This was changed to a hand over the heart after the same practice was adopted by Nazi youth to pledge allegiance to a different country.
Bellamy lived to see the Pledge transformed into KKK endorsed oaths of chauvinism, and was horrified at it.
In the 50's, as further reaction to the Soviet Union and the "godless commies," the words "under God" were added. Bellamy's granddaughter noted that he would have been equally horified to have the pledge endorse religion. The purpose of the addition was explicitly to promote religion.
Sources:This was compiled from several sources. One was http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jun2002/pled-j28.shtml. The other was from http://www.vineyard.net/vineyard/history/pledge.htm (this history of the pledge can be found on many web sites, not just this one).
_________________
Lawyer: "Now sir, I'm sure you are an intelligent and honest man--"
Witness: "Thank you. If I weren't under oath, I'd return the compliment."
[ This Message was edited by: Nightmare on 2002-06-30 00:03 ]
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Sorry friend but this website has alot of errors, for example it was the Knights of Columbus that had the UNDER GOD pharse added. How about you do somemore reseach and get the correct facts. Hell even USA TODAY had the correct facts in this past Thursday's paper.
Sorry but the sources you cited are WRONG.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Jun-2002 12:07 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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On 2002-06-30 04:06, Gangrene wrote:
Quote:
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On 2002-06-29 23:05, Karagin wrote:
B grade? Okay sure...right and that's like saying STARSHIP TROOPERS was the best scifi movie ever...not.
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You're right, B grade is too good for it. Starship Troopers was B grade, The meaning of Life is more of a D grade movie.
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If you say so, I would take MP over 90% of the so called comdey today...
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 01-Jul-2002 00:31 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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On 2002-06-30 12:06, Karagin wrote:
Sorry friend but this website has alot of errors, for example it was the Knights of Columbus that had the UNDER GOD pharse added. Sorry but the sources you cited are WRONG.
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? The second site did have the Knights of Columbus mentioned as driving the campaign for "under god".
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A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Jul-2002 01:53 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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But you didn't quote that in your posting...so I thought I would point the facts on this.
The other site you did quote is not correct and thus is misleding about things.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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