| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
|
 Posted: 24-Aug-2006 09:16 Post subject: RE: Man O'war v. Uller |
  |
|
Really? On any map? Even a single hit from one of the ACs can be a critical hit...
This is a risky choice.
_________________
The dragon NEVER sleeps!
|
|
| Back to top |
  
|
Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
|
| Posted: 24-Aug-2006 12:16 Post subject: RE: Man O'war v. Uller |
|
|
Actually the goal was to find the largest canon omni that the Man O'war Prime could beat regularly (not situation specific). So far it looks like the Uller (unless someone can think of a different candidate?).
I really only considered the Prime configs; an Uller A or other variant might do better. Certain smaller mechs could take it, if the terrain were right (Fire Falcon). The Dasher would need _very_ favorable terrain unless Lvl 3 movement mods were in effect (remember that the MOw can reverse its arms and has a medium range of 15 hexes).
The other configurations of the Man O'war all carry heavy weapons that can paste a light mech in one shot. A situation could be contrived where a light mech would win (especially against the C variant), but on the typical map it's just a matter of time before the MOw takes it down.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
|
| Posted: 24-Aug-2006 15:29 Post subject: RE: Man O'war v. Uller |
|
|
The largest target for the Gargoyle?
Perhaps
Phantom prime (not an easy kill due to strong armor and speed)
Crossbow prime (having 24 salvos for two Artemis augmented LRM 20s is a strong argument, but if the Gargoyle forces the Crossbow to expend all ammo than it has nothing... well, Crossbow can try to do the same to Gargoyle...)
Naga prime (I don't know if it counts)
[ This Message was edited by: Sleeping Dragon on 2006-08-24 15:30 ]
_________________
The dragon NEVER sleeps!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
|
| Posted: 24-Aug-2006 16:41 Post subject: RE: Man O'war v. Uller |
|
|
Hmmm . . .
Phantom: remember, the Man O'war used 3/4 of its AC ammo and 1/2 of its SRM ammo to kill the Uller, which has much less armor, internal structure, and is far slower. The Phantom's also fast enough to get behind the MOw (ER Medium is a decent weapon against the rear) or play the range game (7-10 hexes is good for ER Med and LRM's, bad for SRM's). I wouldn't bet on the MOw unless the gunner was better than 3/4 and/or the terrain was really restricted.
Crossbow: This mech is bad, no question. But it has the same movement, similar armor, and a standard engine. It also does 4 times the long-range damage of the MOw. Heck, it can do more damage at 20 hexes than the MOw can do at 2. The Man O'war will have to close to get a kill- the AC's are not enough. Th Crossbow has the armor to weather plenty of AC-5 hits. Unless the Crossbow pilot has poor fire discipline, he'll save a few salvos until he has a halfway decent shot. I highly doubt the Man O'war could take it half the time.
Naga: I wouldn't really count this as an omnimech, but strictly speaking I suppose it is. It has enough speed and armor to absorb a lot of what the MOw can dish out. Every time it scores full damage the MOw has to make a piloting check, so this one would come down to luck (and how far apart they started). The Naga can also make use of different ammo types, although not homing for this match. Also, the MOw _really_ doesn't want to get caught up in dense terrain or fall down.
None of these were in the original set of Clan omnis, and all of them are highly specialized for certain tasks (okay, you could call the Crossbow "front-line", but it's still a specialist). Come to think of it, I have always assumed that the Man O'war was an anti-vehicle specialist.
Still, I don't think the Man O'war could reliably defeat any of these (reliably being 50% or more of the time). Naga, maybe, the others, no.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
|
| Posted: 25-Aug-2006 06:18 Post subject: RE: Man O'war v. Uller |
|
|
Agreed. The Gargoyle would greatly benefit from reduction of the amount of carried DHSs. I think that this would solve the problem most reliably, but that's just why I usually use different configs.
_________________
The dragon NEVER sleeps!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 25-Aug-2006 21:48 Post subject: RE: Man O'war v. Uller |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-08-25 06:18, Sleeping Dragon wrote:
Agreed. The Gargoyle would greatly benefit from reduction of the amount of carried DHSs. I think that this would solve the problem most reliably, but that's just why I usually use different configs.
|
|
Or just say screw the Gargoyle and go with a better Omni...
*Whistles while polishing the picture of himself standing brazenly over a headcapped Masakari with his Nightstar in the background.*
_________________
Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
|
| Posted: 26-Aug-2006 00:21 Post subject: RE: Man O'war v. Uller |
|
|
Not all configs are as bad as the prime, even with all the heat sinks.
*watches ralgith polishing the pic*
I wonder if your mech was polished like this after that battle 
_________________
The dragon NEVER sleeps!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
|
| Posted: 26-Aug-2006 00:57 Post subject: RE: Man O'war v. Uller |
|
|
I'd place the blame on the engine. After all, a Ryoken can do anything a Man O' War can, and moves faster too!
_________________
"The enemy's gate is down."
|
|
| Back to top |
|
ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 26-Aug-2006 09:58 Post subject: RE: Man O'war v. Uller |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-08-26 00:21, Sleeping Dragon wrote:
Not all configs are as bad as the prime, even with all the heat sinks.
*watches ralgith polishing the pic*
I wonder if your mech was polished like this after that battle
|
|
Nah, it got even better treatment. Notice the missing left arm? I placed Ecator (My Mech of course) in the repair bay for 2 weeks so she could be given a complete overhaul and a new paint job. She was so beautiful that day though.
*Hangs picture back on wall by his private booth*
Besides, I did have a little help with that Masakari hehe. He walked on a mine, the picture don't show it but the left foot is gone and most of the leg armor looks like a fillet... so he was moving pretty slow.
_________________
Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
|
|
| Back to top |
|
ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 26-Aug-2006 10:00 Post subject: RE: Man O'war v. Uller |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-08-26 00:57, mud wrote:
I'd place the blame on the engine. After all, a Ryoken can do anything a Man O' War can, and moves faster too!
|
|
Amen to that mate. I'd take a PAIR of Ryoken over a STAR of Man O' War just about any day of the week. Though I'd rather take a nice mixed Star of course... but meh hehe.
_________________
Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
|
|
| Back to top |
|
jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: 27-Aug-2006 04:39 Post subject: RE: Man O'war v. Uller |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-08-26 10:00, ralgith wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2006-08-26 00:57, mud wrote:
I'd place the blame on the engine. After all, a Ryoken can do anything a Man O' War can, and moves faster too!
|
|
Amen to that mate. I'd take a PAIR of Ryoken over a STAR of Man O' War just about any day of the week. Though I'd rather take a nice mixed Star of course... but meh hehe.
|
|
You are kidding, no? We are now talking any configuration?
Everyone always compares the Gargoyle C to the Stormcrow B. Yes, they have the same load-out. And yes, the Stormcrow B is really, really scary. But the Gargoyle is still more comfortable doing it, with 2 extra tons of FF armour (29 points) and 3 extra double heat sinks, as well as the heavier chassis, which also helps and supports the whole assault feel.
Yes, I agree that the Stormcrow is absolutely awesome. But does it totally make the Gargoyle worthless? No!
Besides, the Gargoyle configuration A is so awesome, I'd take that over most Timberwolf configurations any time!
2 Stormcrows against 5 Gargoyles? The Stormcrows would be extremely lucky to achieve a single kill!
says jymset, long-time fan of the Gargoyle (A)
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
|
| Posted: 28-Aug-2006 17:30 Post subject: RE: Man O'war v. Uller |
|
|
The basic chassis isn't useless, just weaker than the Mad Cat in almost every way. It's some of the poor pod choices (especially the Prime) that make the mech so bad
The Ryoken can do almost anything the Man O'war can. But only almost. The MOw has a few more armor points, thicker internal structure, and (most importantly) 6 extra heat sinks. In most situations that would more than compensate for a 1/1 speed increase.
2 Ryoken vs. 5 Man O'war: even if all the MOw's were Primes and observing strict dueling rules, that's a lot of potential damage and _a lot_ of chances for head hits or lucky crits. I doubt the Ryoken could easily defeat all 5. Use any other configurations (or ignore zellbrigen) and the 2 Ryoken don't stand much of a chance.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 30-Aug-2006 08:57 Post subject: RE: Man O'war v. Uller |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-08-28 17:30, Knightrunner wrote:
2 Ryoken vs. 5 Man O'war: even if all the MOw's were Primes and observing strict dueling rules, that's a lot of potential damage and _a lot_ of chances for head hits or lucky crits. I doubt the Ryoken could easily defeat all 5. Use any other configurations (or ignore zellbrigen) and the 2 Ryoken don't stand much of a chance.
|
|
*Bonks jymset and Knightrunner for not paying attention*
I said Ryoken OVER MOW, not AGAINST them heh.
_________________
Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
|
|
| Back to top |
|
jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: 30-Aug-2006 10:49 Post subject: RE: Man O'war v. Uller |
|
|
What's the difference? I would take the star of assault omnis, for above reasons!
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
|
| Posted: 30-Aug-2006 11:44 Post subject: RE: Man O'war v. Uller |
|
|
Okay, I see your point. Subtle, but I see it now. 
Still, a star of MOw is a lot of metal, and the better configurations make up for some of the base chassis' deficiencies. As a commander, I wouldn't be able to turn down 5 vs. 2.
However, as an individual pilot, I'd rather be in a Ryoken. At least I'd be equivalent to other designs in my weight class. And I wouldn't have those stravags from a rival star laughing that I use an assault mech for jobs where they use a medium.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
