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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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 Posted: 19-Jan-2005 15:32 Post subject: RE: Idea: 'army books' for BT |
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To me this is not battletech...make it part of Battleforce or MWDA...
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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AlexxKnight
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 11-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 787
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| Posted: 19-Jan-2005 18:15 Post subject: RE: Idea: 'army books' for BT |
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Quote:
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On 2005-01-19 14:11, Vagabond wrote:
I believe you are miss understanding what he is pointing out here Karagin. He is not asking for a list of existent TOEs. What he is pointing out, if i understand him correctly, is a list of machines, only, used by each side. This list would list the percentage of availability of each Mech and Vehicle used by each faction. This would allow people who are not big on reading the fluff and background of BT to easily select a representative force, which they then could BUY and USE miniatures for.
So if a wargammer, not a BattleTech player, just wanted to play out skirmishes, he could quickly scan over the tables and select an appropriate amount of machines to use for that battle.
How i imagine these tables would be assembled is as such.
Force Selection Tables
1] select the engagement value in increments of 1000. [say 4000]
2] select max unit limit. [4 units]
3] select year and level of play. [say 3025, lvl 1]
4] select which faction you wish to deploy. [Kurita]
5] refer to appropriate table for the unit type you wish to deploy. [Mechs]
6] check unit availabilities for unit type.
Example Heavy Mech Table:
DRG-1C 1/2 per 1000
DRG-1N 1/4 per 1000
DRG-1G 1/8 per 1000
RFL-3N 1/8 per 1000
CPTL-1A 1/4 per 1000
CPTL-C1 1/4 per 1000
CPTL-C4 1/4 per 1000
CPTL-K2 1/8 per 1000
CRD-3K 1/8 per 1000
CRD-3R 1/4 per 1000
EXT-4A 1/12 per 1000
TDR-5S 1/8 per 1000
ARC-2K 1/4 per 1000
ARC-2R 1/4 per 1000
So in a 4000 engagement I could select 4 units from these.
2 DRG-1C
1 DRG-1N
0 DRG-1G
0 RFL-3N
1 CPTL-1A
1 CPTL-C1
1 CPTL-C4
0 CPTL-K2
0 CRD-3K
1 CRD-3R
0 EXT-4A
0 TDR-5S
1 ARC-2K
1 ARC-2R
Meaning any 4 mechs up to max number of each can be taken in my 4 unit Unit. of course, these would be further limited by BV and there numbers would be figured accordingly. Even thou I can select 3 DRGs and a CPTL, the BV for the engagement would force me to select less costly machines.
This sorta what I believe this suggestion was about. Frankly, I like the idea. I could use a central book with the availability and proliferation of each type and variant of each unit in each house. Also, a table listing the average availability of of green, regular, veteran, and elite crews/pilots in each house would be cool. I mean, how good is the likely hood of having a veteran or elite in a garrison lance?
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I've been reading this thread for a few days now, and I've been trying to figure out just what it is people are suggesting here. I too have to agree that the information people are proposing for a new book is already out there. While I am beginning to understand why they might want it, it is not worth republishing it. Values or at least BV multipliers for pilot experience are already available as well. I first remember seeing the basic information being available in the 2nd Edition MechWarrior Book, broken down by house and weight class. The BV values for each mech are listed in each Record sheets book at the back.
In short, the information is out there ready to be used. I doubt interested wargamers would really to lazy to do a little leg work. But that is just my two cents.
_________________
Alexx Knight, Lance Sgt.
Command Company, Crimson Janissaries
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The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. . . And you
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 19-Jan-2005 20:04 Post subject: RE: Idea: 'army books' for BT |
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Do we really need a book? Vagabond just did chapter one for us.
_________________
"Politics is the Art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing the problem, and applying the wrong solution."
-Groucho Marx
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 19-Jan-2005 23:34 Post subject: RE: Idea: 'army books' for BT |
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The idea was for an army list similar to the ones used for the Warhammer 40K game. There's full guidelines on what troops a given army uses and the amounts of each that you may field. Leaders, line troops, support and specialists or whatever they're called. Usually they must have a leader character and a certain amount of basic troops before adding any specialist stuff. Pick and choose from the list up to the agreed-upon point value, then show up for the fight with your models.
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A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 20-Jan-2005 03:11 Post subject: RE: Idea: 'army books' for BT |
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Vagabond, I bow to you. You have the idea down pat. And I pretty much like your system, too! (Though I would disagree with the proliferation of 'mechs - according to fluff, Kurita had all of one single Catapult functioning in a unit in 3025 - in Brion's Legion!!! - a merc outfit)
Honestly, guys, don't you often think that there is way too much usage of 'mechs outside of their fluff-based boundaries?
I told you about my bro. Then, I've had other frustrating experiences too. Once, we decided to use the Clan randomn tables (since we had most models from those). My friend goes like: Oh, the Snow Ravens have a Daishi on the Assault table at no.7..... So, MY Clan will be Snow Raven. I mean WTF? He didn't know the first thing about that (naval) Clan.
So, just a book supplying some stricter way of building a force (Vagabond's basis wouldn't be half bad), with some basic fluff (basic military/political/social backgrounds), some guide-lines to camo specs (yes, this part would indeed be very, very redundant), some rules for structuring the 'army'.
The skill level of the unit could also be represented at that level (for instance, standard units having mechwarriors at 5/4 skill, lance commanders at, say 4/4, company commanders at 4/3....).
At an advanced level, a book like that could also supply the proportional setup of a combined-arms unit (tanks to 'mechs to infantry).
And finally, yes, this all can be achieved through good use of fluff by experienced BTechies. But really, it is quite a bit of fairly dispersed information all in one place.
Last but not least: What I personally am thinking of is the era of 3025. Which is hardly supported anymore. Yes, even back then there were tables (NAIS Atlas). But unless the War of 3039 supplement reintroduces something with a bit of universal validity.....
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 20-Jan-2005 04:58 Post subject: RE: Idea: 'army books' for BT |
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Hey jymset, why don't you get together with a couple like minded folks and create for us a rough draft of one faction's unit tables as you are wanting them. See how the feedback is. It might be something you can just make instead of waiting for someone else to do it. If it goes over very well, think about doing the other factions and maybe they would buy the manuscripts off you and put em in print. long shot I know but still....
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If ignorance is bliss, then why are you so miserable?
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Shadowking
Kell Hounds
Captain
Joined: 22-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 365
Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Jan-2005 12:24 Post subject: RE: Idea: 'army books' for BT |
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Perhaps you are referring to something like the Unit Faction Listings in the Combat Operations sourcebook? It seems pretty much like what you seem to be wanting to me, from what I can understand from this thread. It's just a listing of every clan and house, plus a general listing, of what mech/vehicle/battlesuit/aero is specificly used where. Names, cost, value, tonnage, and era. And while they might not have a percentage of how common a specific unit is in a faction, you can still probably make a decent guess on them just by their tonnage. Chances are, if a house has both an Atlas and a Rifleman on their list, it's probably a good bet that you would find a lot more Riflemen than Atlas. 
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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 20-Jan-2005 14:18 Post subject: RE: Idea: 'army books' for BT |
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Is that the current one? If yes, oh dear, more money down the drain.... 
And if it is, yes, I'll shut up until I've had a look at it!
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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