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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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 Posted: 19-Oct-2004 06:37 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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I like Physical weapons. It much more exciting to decapitate with a Sword rather than bashing the head in with just your fists.... 
It also leaves a lasting empression on everyone who sees it... 
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 01-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 1138
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Oct-2004 11:50 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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Physical weapons have their place. They're fun to use, for one thing. That Berserker I submitted; hit 'em with the energy weapons, then charge them. If it works out right, you get a nice 40 damage. That'll strip hundred tonners of most armor on a location; a target much lighter than that, and that location's gone. For a general purpose 'Mech though, physical weapons aren't real great to have; they're too heavy and too specific in their use. It's not easy to find that perfect hit for a hatchet. I'd much rather some Streak SRMs for the tonnage. If I get into physical range, I usually just kick. I like having an enemy down on the ground without a leg.
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Blackhand
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Joined: 05-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 334
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 19-Oct-2004 18:20 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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I'm with just about everyone here, the best uses of the hatchets and swords usually are pychological and cause tactics changes in opponents.
Kicking out an opponents leg is a far superior tactic to hoping on the standard table with the melee weapon.
Having something with a hatchet lets the enemy focus fire on it buying the rest of your force time to do some damage, and/or range for the rest of your units to pummel an opposing force.
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 2074
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Oct-2004 20:08 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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I personaly find phisical combat distatstefull and better suited to rude Savages than true warriors
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Force of nature
Still crazy after all these years
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 20-Oct-2004 04:04 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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One bad point about kicking. Failed piloting rolls! I hate that! I try to kick, miss, and fall down. NOw I'm the one on the ground. Don't get that with punches or melee weapon misses.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8053
Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Oct-2004 05:03 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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On 2004-10-20 04:04, Seraph wrote:
One bad point about kicking. Failed piloting rolls! I hate that! I try to kick, miss, and fall down. NOw I'm the one on the ground. Don't get that with punches or melee weapon misses.
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You have to fail 2 rolls in a roll...you do that you deserve to fall.
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 24-Oct-2004 15:58 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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Some of us just have that kind of luck.
As a player, I'm trying to kill the other guy. Snake eyes.
As a GM I'm just trying to make him soil himself. Box cars, three times.
And then the player misses the mercy roll...
(Yes, this is my approach to GM-ing. Like it, hate it, it works for my group).
As for melee weapons, they have a place. I think the Hatchetman and the Axeman work pretty well. They're designed to lurk in the shadows and mug unsuspecting mechs. A kick to the head (a al the hatchet) will do as much to ruin your day as a blast from the AC 10, or LBX-20.
That said, I'm traditionally an open range support pilot (my mech is a Whitworth), so melee weapons are useless to me. Now, I could see an assault mech carrying a hatchet into a brawl. They're normally close in fighters anyway, (being as they are trying to break open lines and take ground away), and an Atlas wielding a hatchet would surely ruin any run-of-the-mill medium mech pilot's day. Even if he only hit an arm. (a head shot would be nearly fatal)
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Shadowking
Kell Hounds
Captain
Joined: 22-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 365
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Nov-2004 11:22 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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More often than not, melee weapons aren't really that useful given that you could probably put something else on a mech for the cost of having the weapon. Especially since you can easily do a normal punch or kick still with no cost.
However, all that said, it is fun just to have them some times though. And even more so when you can actually make use of them. 
Most especially if you're using lvl 3 rules and the said melee weapon is a Mace. Doing 2x the damage of a kick (4x if using TSM) simply cannot be ignored. Though it does have that pilot check if you miss. But when you're doing 80 or so damage with a single hit, who cares? 
Of course there is also the claw too, but I've never thought much of the claw. Though it does have some use I suppose, with that ability to dig itself into another unit so it can't escape. Unless you're way bigger than the other guy, or you've got them by the back, its sorta silly.
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Boneshaman
Draconis Combine
Go-cho
Joined: 13-Aug-2004 00:00
Posts: 52
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| Posted: 01-Nov-2004 12:24 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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| i love melee weapons i just wish they had the mace and claws in the design. i built a Berserker with a mace, TSM and the new level 3 super charger. 80 damage once it hits 9 on the heat scale and hits its target.40 without going up on the heat scale. Evan an Atlas would be in pain.
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2004 20:14 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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TSM was invented for people who don't know how to manage heat, in my opinion.
I take a certain perverse pride in blowing the heads off TSM mounted mechs from a distance as their pilots overheat and fall behind.
Granted, I need a lot of room to do that, but as I've said before, I'm a range kind-of-guy.
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"Politics is the Art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing the problem, and applying the wrong solution."
-Groucho Marx
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bladewind
Free Rasalhague Republic
Major General
Joined: 02-Oct-2004 00:00
Posts: 1054
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2004 22:13 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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| TSM does have its uses but in budget matchups. Er no.
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Feral
ComStar
Sergeant
Joined: 25-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 107
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| Posted: 04-Nov-2004 08:59 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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Quote:
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On 2004-11-03 20:14, SaberDance wrote:
TSM was invented for people who don't know how to manage heat, in my opinion.
I take a certain perverse pride in blowing the heads off TSM mounted mechs from a distance as their pilots overheat and fall behind.
Granted, I need a lot of room to do that, but as I've said before, I'm a range kind-of-guy.
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Hmm ... well I pilot several TSM mechs and a well designed and managed TSM mech should never be at anything but 9 heat unless either A: They take an engine hit that round or B: They take a heatsink hit that round. There is simply no excuse otherwise. TSM ... aside from having interesting side effects on melee combat also greatly improves the mobility of a mech for 0 tons. I have a 75 ton mech who's 4/6/4 but the TSM makes him a 5/8/4 ... that's a lot of mobility for a 75 ton mech that can either kick for 30 damage or swing a couple punches for 16 each. That's 2 punch table locations for 16 damage ... 1/3 chance for instant enemy death. Oh and not to mention the mech is loaded for bear with more conventional weapons and with that kind of mobility and armor. Oh and I should finally add the mech costs less than 10 million ... pretty damned cheap for a level 2 75 ton mech.
TSM should never be underrated. Its not for every mech nor for every pilot or playstyle, but it can seriously change things if used right. The mech must be carefully built around the TSM however.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 04-Nov-2004 09:46 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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Why use a 75-tonner for that? 60 tons is enough for nice 12-point punches, and you can make it move 5/8 (6/9) instead.
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Feral
ComStar
Sergeant
Joined: 25-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 107
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| Posted: 04-Nov-2004 11:32 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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Quote:
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On 2004-11-04 09:46, Nightmare wrote:
Why use a 75-tonner for that? 60 tons is enough for nice 12-point punches, and you can make it move 5/8 (6/9) instead.
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Well mech design is a different subject altogether and this was the design I came up with to meet my needs (I needed something big enough to be able to engage within 5 hexes upper end heavies and assaults but for under 10 million so I made this brawler). But strictly speaking ... a 75ton 4/6 will be able to hold a lot more equipment, armor, and have more internal structure than a 60 ton 5/8. I think it's close to 10 tons (after you figure in the extra armor and IS and gyro weight). I mean if your only goal is to punch people's heads off ... sure go with the 60 tonner ... hehe ... but like I said above my goals were to make a totally decent brawler which could slug it out with heavier mechs ... the punching their head's off is a nice side effect but the TSM is there mostly for mobility. I couldn't give up the tonnage for a MASC (which is also pretty expensive), but I could give up the 6 crits. No one laughs at a 5/8/4 75 ton IS mech with a fusion engine who has the mobility to close easily with much heavier mechs and take them completely out of the fight with one lucky punch. The cost of the TSM though is the +1 to hit modifier which I've mitigated with a Targetting computer (something else I almost always put on TSM mechs ... means you don't have to think about the heat modifier ... purely convenience really).
I'm not trying to say I'm the uber-mech designer here, but TSM is a very powerful tool which has a place on certain mech designs ... just like XL engines. Not something that fits every design (like double heat sinks), but it has it's place and if implemented correctly can provide certain key advantages that can give a mech the edge in combat.
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 04-Nov-2004 11:41 Post subject: RE: Melee Weapons Worth it or not? |
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Or it can lead to your destruction; if your opponent knows you're carrying TSM he can pack his SRMs with that gas that makes the stuff burst into flames. People who get a hard on for TSM tend to forget this little problem.
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