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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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 Posted: 18-Aug-2004 15:19 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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Ahh... don't you love the smell of 7018 fluxx burning in the morning?
Ahh...the memories.
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If ignorance is bliss, then why are you so miserable?
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DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
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| Posted: 18-Aug-2004 15:58 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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You call it a memory, I call it a fume-induced migraine. 
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 18-Aug-2004 16:03 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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The strength of the weld is actually a liability in itself. The weld won't bend or flex like the metal around it. This isn't normally a problem, but high heat or extreme cold can cause the metal around the weld to break.
It was such a large problem with the WWII Liberty Ships they finally had to rivet a belt around the hull to keep them from snapping in half in the frigid North Atlantic.
M"SD"H
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-Groucho Marx
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1921
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| Posted: 18-Aug-2004 18:55 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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Quote:
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On 2004-08-18 05:02, Seraph wrote:
Actually the weld is going to be stronger than the material that was welded. |
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That all depends on the quality of the weld...as we've learned at work several times...
I have seen welds in tubing unzip long before any other part of the driveline failed...
Ruger
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 18-Aug-2004 20:55 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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Then it wasn't lain by a welder. It was placed by what I've refered as a "sparker". Someone who knows enough about welding to make some sparks and get the seperate pieces of metal to stick together. It may look good, it may not. But when it comes down to it; it is merely crap on metal and is in no way considered a weld. I have fired many "sparkers" in my relatively short time as a welder. (9 years)
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 18-Aug-2004 21:00 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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True the weld is more rigid than the surrounding metal. But them, again it depends on what metal you are welding. The mild steel in use then and now is flexible to a degree. And the weld is much more rigid than the base material. However, in an armor application the rigidity is not as much of a factor considering what abuse it's going to take. Two, the actual composition of mech armor is an unknown. It is known that when it debuted on the Mackie it was COMPLETELY unpenetratable by the main tank guns of that era. So we aren't dealing with mild steel. I would make the dreaded assumption that the armor composites on mechs are harder than any armor composite in use today or in the near future (BTech future that is).
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jfox61
Clan Ghost Bear
Point Commander
Joined: 05-Aug-2004 00:00
Posts: 46
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 18-Aug-2004 21:24 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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I agree with a couple of other postings. It would bog down into a bookkeeping excercise. Needing to keep track of every section of armour that was welded and where and by whom and what the quality of the weld was like would be a complete nightmare to keep track of.
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 18-Aug-2004 22:29 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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Quote:
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On 2004-08-18 21:24, jfox61 wrote:
I agree with a couple of other postings. It would bog down into a bookkeeping excercise. Needing to keep track of every section of armour that was welded and where and by whom and what the quality of the weld was like would be a complete nightmare to keep track of.
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Isn't it fascinating when the young (as in, you've only got 5 posts) tell everyone else what to do?
Isn't it even more fascinating when they're right. Out of the mouths of babes -metaphorically speaking.
Yes, though this may be a discrepency in accuracy, it is also one less head-ache that is simply not worth the trouble, especially since marauder armor is such a "patchwork" to begin with. You'd need the BT equivalent of carfacts.com.
M"SD"H
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"Politics is the Art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing the problem, and applying the wrong solution."
-Groucho Marx
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DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
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| Posted: 19-Aug-2004 02:00 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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Why not try a house rule, or some thing. If youre going from slab to round, or round to slab, tack on an extra 30 minutes to make the adjustments.
Just a thought. 
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Ronin
ComStar
Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 907
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Aug-2004 10:21 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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| I remember reading somewhere for repair rules (at least in the original Mechwarrior RPG manual) that a partially successful repair resulted in some permanently lost armor available on the section of mech. Would this be a rule that would cover this situation somewhat? At least without getting bogged down in details?
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 19-Aug-2004 11:18 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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That's essentially what I do. Using non-Lamallar armor to repair a marauder, you only get 12 points of armor per ton, due to the impossibility of fitting the armor plate sections properly onto the Marauder's carapace, and to account for the inevitable gaps and weak points created by the patchwork armor.
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 19-Aug-2004 11:22 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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In the words of one of my gamers...
"Meh."
This is one of those rare house rules that I won't touch with a ten foot pole. I'm not even a big fan of the mechwarrior partial repair rules, just because I figure that anything a tech can break can either be fixed or replaced if they have the right parts.
As for Marauders, I think this is probably getting a little too detailed, but if people want to do it, go nuts.
If my GM wanted to do this, I'd probably just stay away from Marauders. The coolness factor does not mitigate the post-game head ache factor.
M"SD"H
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 19-Aug-2004 11:47 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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But what happens when you don't have the right parts?
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1657
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Aug-2004 14:06 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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Then you get all sorts of halfbreed mechs. Ever seen a Phoenix hawk with the head of a Wasp?
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 19-Aug-2004 17:52 Post subject: RE: Marauder armor |
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There is the Phoenix Hawk/Wasp head combination, but I was meaning that a "partial repair" to armor results in permanent loss of armor. Why? Next time the tech has a spare chance he can redo the job right. And if he has damaged the armor lugs, how hard is it to bolt on new lugs?
And if everything else fails, there is the option to jurry rig until the right parts come along.
I figure that nothing you do to a mech as a technician is going to be irreversable (at the very least a particle cannon will make a great eraser). If it is reparable before the tech has a chance at it, it should be reparable after.
And if you don't have the parts, you jury rig and wait for the next parts shipment.
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"Politics is the Art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing the problem, and applying the wrong solution."
-Groucho Marx
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