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Horhiro
Draconis Combine
Samurai
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1625
Location: United States
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 Posted: 30-Mar-2004 10:14 Post subject: RE: House Steiner Handbook cover trivia question |
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On a side note, just a question.
Why do all the women in modern art/comics/gaming have to be portrayed with 44DD Breasts? Is our culture that obsessed? What happened to painting/drawing beautiful women with normal proportions? 
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Havoc~Ronin
Federated Suns
Major
Joined: 13-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 427
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2004 11:31 Post subject: RE: House Steiner Handbook cover trivia question |
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Excellent point you make! We could actually carry this post on for a long while debating society's view/opinion on the female figure and what are now acceptable proportions (not to mention desired...)
Perhaps it is one of those push up dresses that took them hours to get into and if any sudden movement is required, then neighbors beware! 
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Havoc~Ronin
Federated Suns
Major
Joined: 13-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 427
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2004 11:34 Post subject: RE: House Steiner Handbook cover trivia question |
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Me again... just had a thought.... ouch, that hurt!
I would be curious to see if this "artist" copies for all his submitted work. Additionally, do al the new books/mauals/reference materials use copied art pieces?
Curiosity got the cat and satisfaction brought it back!
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"Ours is not to question why, ours is just to do...."
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 912
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2004 12:55 Post subject: RE: House Steiner Handbook cover trivia question |
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OOC:
From the artist perspective, a good pairs of boobs draw the attention of the male viewer, so you don't have to put much effort on faces, the aged faces of the men, took much more work, because they are going to draw more attention than the women faces.
Of course, in comic books, the female curves are exxagerated to appeal to horny teenagers that make up their audience, but I don't see out of place drawing women with a generous bossom in this cover. It's not as obvious as 'Mechwarrior bikini babes (as an aside, something wich has a justification in Battletech, unlike the gratuitous chainmail bikinis of fantasy) , and I find it refreshing for these tired eyes, giving the prevailing anorexic ideal of female beauty. You have to turn to porn to find women with real curves.
I don't see any obsession with it. Me like boobs 
IC answer:
Well, those dresses slim the waist and push up the breasts, certainly the women in the center is well endowed, but the left one is just normal.
The artist in this depiction of Lyran nobility is giving us a few clues about the aesthetic values of that society. We can safely concluded the Lyrans like displays of wealth, those ladies are showing off jewelry loaded with lots of diamonds, and the men's decorations look like solid gold and they are studded with gems. Clearly, Lyrans are obsessed with riches and their Weltanschauung (philosophy of life, you clod  ) is "you are worth as much as you have"
Now, let's see, the Lyrans like their women curvy, wich means the female beauty ideal is of a well fed woman, if you are curvy, you are rich, if you are thin and skinny, you are an underfed proletarian or peasant, (you are reffered to the female beauty ideal of the 50s as opposed to the privations of WWII)
From this we can conclude that the Lryan upper class are parasites that live off the working classes, and their outrageous displays of wealth hint at a great social inequality between the have and the have not (there's something on these in the House Steiner sourcebook)
Mmmm, what else we can say from the picture. Let's see, Lyran women like long hair (wich is the fashion in the Inner Sphere in the 3020s) to accentuate their feminity, the gathering of the hair on top of the head it's meant to make the jewels (ear pendants and collars) more visible, jewels are the main ornament of women, makeup if any is subtle, just a subdued lipstick color.
The elaborate hairdo must be quite impractical and the girl on the left that looks younger wears her hair loose falling down their back, but notice that it must be held in place by something so to keep the hair from obscuring the ear pendants.
So what this tell us is that for a Lyran woman being elegant and looking rich is more important than looking sexy. So despite the cleavage shown, this hints at a sexually conservative society on the surface, but given to all the vices money can buy in secret, a bit like Victorian age societies. The proof are planets like Dustball and Kooken's Pleasure Pit.
Now, looking at those charming young ladies in company of two Hauptmann Generals (their rank indicated by the First Steiner Cross insignia) wich are much older and unattractive, but have high rank and accordingly impressive social standing, we can conclude that Lyran aristocracy women have little to do beyond Kinder, Kuche und Kirche (kids, kitchen and church) and they are a bunch of calculating, greedy social climbers aspiring to marry a rich, powerful husband. In other realms, the young noblewomen lose their heads for young handsome cadets, while in the Commonwealth, they aim for high rank officers or wealthy men. At any rate, you can always have an affair on the side (just as the husband will be doing with some whore for hire), provided that doesn't risk your status.
OOC: Yes, I am bored and have way too much time on my hands 
[ This Message was edited by: Vampire on 2004-03-30 12:56 ]
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2004 13:20 Post subject: RE: House Steiner Handbook cover trivia question |
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Yeah I see the simularities. Altough the Stiner painting is really poorly done. I just wish they would find artists that try harder.
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 912
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2004 13:43 Post subject: RE: House Steiner Handbook cover trivia question |
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Footnote: I felt that the artist was right in depicting the women with long hair, as is the fashion in the Inner Sphere in the 3020s (note however that Archon Designate Melissa Steiner wears shorter hair, signalling a new trend) but I was unsure about the men's hairdo, it seemed that the artist had gone for a short hair, military style haircut wich is well and proper for today but didn't match the Inner Sphere of 3020s.
Well, I checked, and I don't know if it was on purpose or by accident, but the artist got it right. Those men are past their 50s, and characters of that age portrayed in the Steiner sourcebook (case in point, a military man like Frederick Steiner) have indeed their hair shorter than the generation of 3020, (men tend to keep into old age the hairdo prevalent on their youth) and are clean shaven, while younger Lyrans or those that keep up with the times sport moustaches and beards.
Hey, if you think I'm splitting hairs (pun intended) bear in mind that hairdos and facial hair fashions are very representative of each historical period, and have served as a sign of identification in armies, and part of the uniformity (examples, the moustache and goatee "musketeer style" of soldiers in the 17th century, or during the Napoleonic wars, the French wore moustaches and the British sideburns)
Recently, there was a military fashion of cutting the hair very close, short of shaving the head, maybe american influence coming from the US Marines, but it has not always been that way. True, it avoids the hair from tangling, getting diryt and messy and makes easier to sweat, but it also makes you feel cold in the head and makes you look like a dork.
Historically, in WWII only the US Marines and the Red Army shaved the head of recruits. In the USMC it is part of the process of anhiliating the personality of the recruit and rite of passage and what not, in the Red Army it was just a simple way of preventing lice.
But the wheel has turned full circle, I saw recently quite a few US soldiers that had shaved the back and sides of the head but left long hair on top, presumably for better comfort when wearing the helmet. Well, with that haircut and that kevlar helmet they look like German soldiers from WWII !
End of rambling: God, I'm bored!
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5653
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2004 13:44 Post subject: RE: House Steiner Handbook cover trivia question |
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*claps*
that was an intertaining dissertation on this politicaly related peice of art. it was an interesting out look of the nobal class that was nicely support by several refrences to established scources.
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Moonlapse Vertigo
Clan Goliath Scorpion
Star Captain
Joined: 02-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 207
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2004 14:16 Post subject: RE: House Steiner Handbook cover trivia question |
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Dang, Vampire... well done posts! Mine certainly won't be as long or in detail...
However, given that the Steiner picture is inspired by the painting, I don't think its fair to say the battletech author is "ripping off" the painting or being lazy by tributing it with his own work (even if it isn't very good as was said)
As for breasts, we could also say Lyran noblewomen have plenty of money for "operations"...
[ This Message was edited by: Moonlapse Vertigo on 2004-03-30 14:17 ]
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 2074
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2004 21:44 Post subject: RE: House Steiner Handbook cover trivia question |
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O.K. I admit I do not have much in the line of formal art education but I DID work in an art gallery for 7 years.So I do know something about art and it is possible that he was inspired by Goya I think it is more of a use of his style rather than a blatant copy.
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Having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have-Rush Limbaugh www.rushlimbaugh.com
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2004 23:05 Post subject: RE: House Steiner Handbook cover trivia question |
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I can see the simularity between the two images. However, I have a harder time seeing your interpretation of the Charles IV painting. A bunch of people standing around in their best clothes does not strike me as particularly decadent.
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Gangrene
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2004 23:07 Post subject: RE: House Steiner Handbook cover trivia question |
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Consider the audience for said media.
On top of that, American culture has become obsessed with beauty, IMO.
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Gangrene
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2004 06:21 Post subject: RE: House Steiner Handbook cover trivia question |
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No we haven't. Just big boobs.... 
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1657
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2004 11:53 Post subject: RE: House Steiner Handbook cover trivia question |
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Why, is there something wrong with that? hehe
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2004 13:14 Post subject: RE: House Steiner Handbook cover trivia question |
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Not from My POV. And you know that most of the Truths we cling to depend greatly on our POV...
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Col. J. Porter
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Recruit
Joined: 09-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 2
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| Posted: 18-Jun-2005 09:13 Post subject: RE: House Steiner Handbook cover trivia question |
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| Shows what us hick New Worlders know, er don't know.
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