| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
|
 Posted: 11-Mar-2004 16:04 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
  |
|
Mud has that one nailed down. Quite well, and to reply back to Gangrene from a few messages back, fixed equipment like leg actuators dont come in pods and so take just as long to repair as a standard mech. Sure weapon replacement is easier, but thats just that. As for not needing a huge stockpile of pods, yes you do. The number of pods you need is exponential to the number of mechs you have. The more mechs, the bigger the pod curve, since you have to support multiple configs of multiple units. Say you have 2 omnis, and we use a base of 3 configs worth of pods. You would need an average of say, 5-10 pods/config with some pods being used in multiple configs, so we'll say 35 pods for 2 mechs. Now double the number of mechs, and you'd have to triple the number of pods you need on hand because you need to support that many more configs at the same time. Omni's really only make sense for veteran front line units. Now I'm not saying that Omni's are without their strong points, but they sure arent as cureall that every single unit everywhere should be equiped exclusively with.
_________________
Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
|
|
| Back to top |
   
|
ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 11-Mar-2004 16:05 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
|
|
As an aside to my previous post...The figures I used were just guesstimations based on personal experience with using OmniMechs in campaigns.
_________________
Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 11-Mar-2004 20:16 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
|
|
You're probably right that the sale of minis would be hurt if omnis took precedence in the game. That, and they wouldn't need to release TRO's any more. Those are probably the biggest money makers for the game.
_________________
Gangrene
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
|
| Posted: 11-Mar-2004 20:27 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
|
|
Warhammer or Thunderbolt chassis would make good omni chassis'. Their wide variety of weapons on the standard models plus the generous size of the weapons' bays invite omni mods imho.
_________________
If ignorance is bliss, then why are you so miserable?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 11-Mar-2004 20:33 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2004-03-11 16:04, ralgith wrote:
Mud has that one nailed down. Quite well, and to reply back to Gangrene from a few messages back, fixed equipment like leg actuators dont come in pods and so take just as long to repair as a standard mech. |
|
I believe you are wrong. If you reread the fluff introduced around the omnis you'll see that actuators can be switched out just like weapons pods. They only difference is that they are specific to the mech design.
Quote:
| As for not needing a huge stockpile of pods, yes you do. The number of pods you need is exponential to the number of mechs you have. |
|
I doubt that.
Quote:
|
Now double the number of mechs, and you'd have to triple the number of pods you need on hand because you need to support that many more configs at the same time. |
|
This sentence makes no sense. You need "triple" because there's "that many more." Double the mechs, double the equipment. Its linear, not exponential.
_________________
Gangrene
|
|
| Back to top |
|
ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 11-Mar-2004 20:48 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
|
|
You need to re-read everything I said I think, and yes Hand and Lower Arm actuators are pod mounted, but not leg. So YOU re-read the fluff. As for the exponential amount of pods, why dont you take a year long campagin and see how many pods it takes to be able to support 2 mechs, then 4, using 3 different canon configs. Make 1st 2 a heavy and a medium, and when you do 4 do one of each weight, just to make it fair. Since you will need to support any config simoultaneously with any other config, if you have 2 mechs that have a config with a PPC, you need at least 4 PPC pods, in case of battle damage. Instead of arguing this with me when I played a campaign that covered 17 months real time, using Omni's so I have experience....go get the experience yourself.
Also yes you can drop the extra 2 PPC pods in above example if, and only IF, you have a good supply line.
_________________
Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
|
|
| Back to top |
|
DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
|
| Posted: 11-Mar-2004 21:26 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
|
|
Okay, so you need the weapons and gear for every variant you want to field. Heres a question. Can standard weapons be used in Omnimech pods? Or do weapons need to be converted for use in omnimechs? Im not too keen on the idea of buying an ER PPC for a standard mech and one built for omnis. That would be a financial and logistical nightmare.
By the way, -Mud, your avatar-picture-thingy (technical term, there) kics ass!! Gotta love Cowboy Bebop.
See You Space Cowboy.
_________________
Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
|
| Posted: 11-Mar-2004 22:36 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
|
|
Omnimechs provide two advantages over standard 'mechs.
1) omnimech configurations can be changed to take tactical or strategic necessities into account. Yesterday's urban fighter can be made into today's artillery unit with no hassle.
2) Omnimechs are easier to repair, as a damaged weapon can simply be switched out. The weapon can be repaired while the 'mech goes back into battle. Additionally, if you have no ER PPC pods left, no big deal, just slap in a Large Laser and throw the 'mech back into the fighting. With omnimechs, any weapon can be used on any 'mech; with standard 'mechs, if the only 'mech you had that carried a PPC is destroyed on the first day of fighting, the extra PPC you brought with you will be worthless for repairing other units.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
|
| Posted: 12-Mar-2004 00:12 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
|
|
My point exactly. With all of the mechs being made now, its pretty much the same basic chassis, just with a different coat of paint on it. So why not go all out with the omnis?
Hell, you can salvage weapons and use them on the omnis, ditto with the ammo.
The argument has been made that one omni (for the sake of argument) costs twice as much as a standard mech. Well, for that double cost, youre getting a virtually limitless weapons configuration. I can go into a campaign loaded for ranged fights, the swap to close in weapons should I run into an urban knife fight.
And as a side note. For those of you who think non-elemental infantry is...for lack of a better term, useless. Go watch Black Hawk Down.
_________________
Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 12-Mar-2004 10:55 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
|
|
You're right on about omnis. I think the entirety of the clans could operate fine on just 12 to 16 designs, and the IS on maybe a little more.
As for infantry, I don't think the current rules allow them to be as powerful as they are in real life. In RL, an infantry mounted missile or RPG can disable or destroy a tank, plane, or helicopter. In Btech a LAW can't even damage a mech.
_________________
Gangrene
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
|
| Posted: 12-Mar-2004 11:17 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2004-03-12 10:55, Gangrene wrote:
In RL, an infantry mounted missile or RPG can disable or destroy a tank, plane, or helicopter. In Btech a LAW can't even damage a mech.
|
|
But this all has to do with Btech armor, not with the infantry getting shafted as such. Even mechs carrying AC/20s must slag all the armor on a target location before doing any damage to the internals.
_________________
A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
|
| Posted: 12-Mar-2004 16:09 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
|
|
Well, the thing is that LAW is an acronym for Light Antitank Weapon. The key word being 'light'. It wasnt designed to kill a tank in one shot, maybe disable it, however. A VLAW is a Very Light Antitank Weapon (where do these names come from?), and is built more for breaking up jeeps and light infantry carriers, maybe a humvee.
Granted the weapon on a typical tank is definitely an antitank weapon.
When you think about it, Infantry outfitted with SRMs is pretty much infantry with LAW weapons. Doesnt do much damage, but could disable a tank with a lucky hit. Sounds like a fairly good crossover to me.
The main gun on a tank being fully capable of destroying another tank in one shot definitely smells like an AC 10 at least, maybe an AC 20, depending on the ammo being used.
_________________
Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 12-Mar-2004 18:03 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
|
|
Yeah you can convert a pod weapon to normal and back, but it takes your techs time and effort you may not be able to spare on the front.
_________________
Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
|
|
| Back to top |
|
ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 12-Mar-2004 18:11 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
|
|
You've made some nice points for Omnis guys, and I'm not saying they have no place. But I'd rather field 72 standard mechs in a fight than 36 Omnis. Mud has a nice point about the swapping a LL for the damaged PPC part, but what if that LL is needed for a unit that normally carries it? Omni's have ups and downs, I just like playing devils advocate. I personally love Omnis, but they have downsides as well as up, just like normal units.
_________________
Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
|
|
| Back to top |
|
ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 04-Jun-2004 16:44 Post subject: RE: OmniRaven |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2004-03-09 20:37, DarkAdder wrote:
Okay, ive been flipping through my '67 TRO and Ive noticed something. All of the light mechs fielded by the Capellans are just retreads of the Raven design. The Anubis, Stiletto, and Sha Yu are all built around the Raven. Instead of reinventing the wheel, why didnt they just make the Raven into an omni and move on?
|
|
Ok, while they didn't make a Light OmniMech based on the Raven, they DID make an Omni based on it. The Men Shen is a medium that is based on the Raven, looks just like it too. Its also one bad-assed Omni....IMHO.
_________________
Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
