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BobTheZombie
Federated Suns
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Joined: 29-Jul-2014 00:02
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Location: United States
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 Posted: 29-Jul-2014 00:12 Post subject: Sarna Errata |
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Hello everyone, I'm an editor at Sarna.net; this is a thread for anyone to report specific issues found at the wiki such as incorrect information, major formatting problems, inconsistencies, or questionable wordings. Be sure to include a link to the page and a short description of the issue in your post. Any help would be appreciated as we try to become a more accurate source of information.
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Report Sarna.net inaccuracies here or you can just PM me the details
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5741
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Jul-2014 01:25 Post subject: Sarna Errata |
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I salute your drive for accuracy and wish you the best of luck with the constant Retconning.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 31-Jul-2014 13:05 Post subject: Re: Sarna Errata |
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| Vagabond wrote: | | the constant Retconning. |
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"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Aug-2014 00:57 Post subject: Re: Sarna Errata |
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| jymset wrote: | | Vagabond wrote: | | the constant Retconning. |
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Does my statement confuse you?
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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 01-Aug-2014 09:41 Post subject: Re: Sarna Errata |
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Well, yes. Because it very much depends on what you mean and I'm genuinely interested in that. I can easily see frustration at retcons or celebrations of continuity about what's being written at the moment, so it'd be great to have some context. 
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"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5741
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Aug-2014 17:29 Post subject: Sarna Errata |
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I was having a discussion with my friend the other day.
Battletech started as a small system with only a handful of units. The system was designed around just that... Mechs. Then the developers did something awesome, they expanded the game into an entire universe via books and fluff for the units. However, these early entries entered before the system was mature and fully developed. The first novel was released the same year as Citytech.
The descriptions of combat in the early novels often drastically depart from the established feel of today. The writers and developers were not yet sure how to treat everything with certainty. I mean Thunder Rift has Mechs doing shoulder rolls.
So as the system developed and more entries were made to the Universe, they sometimes quietly and other times overtly changed their own history. Mechs became walking tanks and not as maneuverable as early books seemed to indicate. The fall of the Star League and some other elements got shifted or altered.
And that was ok, the devs didn't start BT with an established game Bible. It was a robot game. It later developed into a Universe. Things needed to be changed or clarified in the feel and style of the Universe.
Then, the devs released Total Warfare. The consolidation of rules and mechanics. However, it wasn't just a new compendium. It was in some ways a total re-crafting of several key systems. All of the core rules for pretty much anything not a Mech was overhauled big time. Aeroes got less changes because they had recently had Aerotech II. But things like infantry and vehicles got major changes.
A lot of these changes invalidated entire segments of historical description of mechanics. But you can find evidence of many changes started years before. The earliest books lack things like aerofighters and true combat vehicles. The infantry (except for GDL) are discounted or just straight up disregarded. Unless they had Infernoes, which were described as terrible weapons. However, mechanically... they now no longer cling to a mech and burn for long periods of time. They blow up and heat a unit up and burn out in 10s.
However, from the point of view of the Universe, vehicles, anti-mech infantry, aerofighters, and warships all existed from the days of the Star League and all mechanically use the present rule set. Many of the ammo types also existed from the days of SL but are not described until mech later in the history despite many of these items never going losttech.
The issue of history has even become WORSE with the release of the Tech Manual. TM served to give us all of the core elements used in the Universe and how to construct them. BUT it also gave us fluff on all the items that units use in combat (plus some). Part of this fluff was also its creation date, loss date, and rediscovery date. Vehicles were created pre-spaceflight, modern BT armor was created in 2470, the PPC in 2460, and the SnubPPC in 3067.
Tech Manual gave them a bible of the production history of BT. It as much as a game can set the timeline in stone. If you are before 2470, no PPCs or modern armor unless is a experimental prototype. Example is the Mackie.
However, several new publications have once again decided to change history. An example is a Rim Worlds Republic Mech put into production during the SL that carries a Snub PPC. The Snub PPC fluff says "The snub-nose PPC was a Star League-era experiment in “overcharging” the standard PPC design that died before it was fully completed and deployed" and "The weapon failed to reach widespread production before the Exodus, and its lessons were integrated with early Clan efforts to refine the standard PPC (a process that finally resulted in the hard-hitting power of the Clan ER PPC)." However, we have a TRO Unit that is stated as being put into production with SPPCs.
So once again, we get a conflict in the universe history that now needs to be retconed because the developers didn't stick to their own history and timeline. Yet again, Comstar recorded history wrong.
And while this frustrates me, I recognize it as simply the way things are when it comes to the history of a universe. As things get more specific, stuff changes. The thing is, BT is at one of the HIGHEST production points in its history. Books are coming out constantly. So the history is expanding at the same.
Thus my comment.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Aug-2014 17:41 Post subject: Sarna Errata |
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Oh and lets not forget all the fun the "Prototype" weapons in 3039 cause to the history. The books seem to make it seem like Comstar did a good job at containing the GDL Core with SL Tech not being widely deployed until AFTER the Clan invasion. But the prototype weapons exist before 3039 and a deployed in a handful of test units.
So which is it? Comstar was good or they failed and we see SL Tech analogs in 3039.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Aug-2014 21:58 Post subject: Sarna Errata |
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Mix of both, they [ComStar] failed at keeping everything under wraps and some things made it to the prototype stage.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Aug-2014 20:14 Post subject: Sarna Errata |
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That unit with the Snub-nose PPC would be considered experimental. They get away with it by saying it wasn't in "widespread distribution", and thus it can be on deployed units. Though I believe what is considered widespread is debatable.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
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Posts: 5741
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Aug-2014 22:16 Post subject: Re: Sarna Errata |
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| Mordel wrote: | | That unit with the Snub-nose PPC would be considered experimental. They get away with it by saying it wasn't in "widespread distribution", and thus it can be on deployed units. Though I believe what is considered widespread is debatable. |
oh i understand that. its that the unit in question was said to be in production, not prototype, with a weapon that hardly left the lab.
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
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| Posted: 04-Aug-2014 20:28 Post subject: Re: Sarna Errata |
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| Vagabond wrote: |
oh i understand that. its that the unit in question was said to be in production, not prototype, with a weapon that hardly left the lab. |
Yeah, there is a lot of that. When you input the designs using the equipment years you find a lot of stuff which doesn't quite fit. The old stuff I can get since it existed before the years were introduced. But anything new should definitely abide by what they've already put out. Poor fact-checking is probably to blame. Follow that with stubbornness to admit you screwed up.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-Aug-2014 22:50 Post subject: Re: Sarna Errata |
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| Mordel wrote: | | Poor fact-checking is probably to blame. Follow that with stubbornness to admit you screwed up. |
This right here. This.
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
Administrator
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| Posted: 05-Aug-2014 16:46 Post subject: Re: Sarna Errata |
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| Vagabond wrote: | | Mordel wrote: | | Poor fact-checking is probably to blame. Follow that with stubbornness to admit you screwed up. |
This right here. This. |
Ha, so you agree that the BT universe is filled with big-headed individuals?
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Mordel Blacknight - Site Administrator
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5741
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Aug-2014 03:25 Post subject: Re: Sarna Errata |
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| Mordel wrote: | | Vagabond wrote: | | Mordel wrote: | | Poor fact-checking is probably to blame. Follow that with stubbornness to admit you screwed up. |
This right here. This. |
Ha, so you agree that the BT universe is filled with big-headed individuals? |
yes, yes i do.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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BobTheZombie
Federated Suns
Recruit
Joined: 29-Jul-2014 00:02
Posts: 3
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Aug-2014 12:18 Post subject: Sarna Errata |
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Does anyone have something to say that is pertinent to the topic at hand (Sarna.net)?
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Report Sarna.net inaccuracies here or you can just PM me the details
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