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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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 Posted: 17-Jun-2013 20:33 Post subject: P-14 Falcon |
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| Code: | AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: P-14 Falcon
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type: Conventional Fighter
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 20 tons
Length: 25 meters
Power Plant: 100 Turbine
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
1 LB 2-X AC
2 Machine Gun
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: P-14 Falcon
Mass: 20 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant: 100 Turbine 6.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Structural Integrity: 5 .00
Total Heat Sinks: 0 Single .00
Fuel: 3.00
Cockpit, Avionics & Attitude Thrusters: 2.00
Armor Type: Standard (8 total armor pts) .50
Standard Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Nose: 2
Left/Right Wings: 2/2
Aft: 2
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 LB 2-X AC Nose 1 1 1 1 0 6.00
Ammo (LB 2-X) 45 --- 1.00
1 Machine Gun RW 2 -- -- -- 0 .50
1 Machine Gun LW 2 -- -- -- 0 .50
Ammo (MG) 100 --- .50
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 0 20.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 280,647 C-Bills
Battle Value: 107
Cost per BV: 2,622.87
Weapon Value: 132 (Ratio = 1.23)
Damage Factors: SRV = 5; MRV = 1; LRV = 0; ERV = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 5, Armor/Structure: 0 / 0
Damage PB/M/L: 1/-/-, Overheat: 0
Class: FL; Point Value: 1
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Trying to figure out a better take on this one, what I was going for was something that an escort for bombers but could also act as a fighter as well. Should I go for a different weapons mix or load out?
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Jun-2013 21:14 Post subject: P-14 Falcon |
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If this was a VTOL then I'd be behind the LB-2X; you could just park it somewhere and plink, then run away if anyone got too close.
But I'm not fond of lone AC/2s of any stripe on fighters; not only is the weight / damage ratio terrible, the minimum range makes them all but useless in a dogfight.
For the same tonnage, you could get an LRM 5 with a ton of ammo, an SRM 4 with a ton of ammo, and a rear-firing machine gun with its own half-ton of ammo.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Jun-2013 21:29 Post subject: P-14 Falcon |
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Thing is I am not looking for a flying SRM or LRM carrier.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
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Posts: 5789
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Jun-2013 21:55 Post subject: Re: P-14 Falcon |
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| Kraken wrote: |
But I'm not fond of lone AC/2s of any stripe on fighters; not only is the weight / damage ratio terrible, the minimum range makes them all but useless in a dogfight.
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Aerofighter ranges have no minimum range. All their is is the dead zone rules, but minimum range is removed on all the weapons.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Jun-2013 22:32 Post subject: Re: P-14 Falcon |
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Why an LB 2-X?
why not a LAC/2 or 5?
what about streaks?
maybe a TBolt 5?
how do you feel about a small aerospace cockpit? given its an escort for bombers, comfort might be useful.
To bad chemical lasers are clan only.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
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| Posted: 18-Jun-2013 00:16 Post subject: P-14 Falcon |
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On a conventional fighter you're pretty limited really. And as Vagabond said, I'd rather see a LAC/5 here...
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Blighted Sun Battalion
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 18-Jun-2013 03:17 Post subject: P-14 Falcon |
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Since you get 160 points of fuel per ton I'd drop all weapons and half ton of fuel and go for a RAC/2 with one ton of ammo. With light armour and speed like this I think the amount of ammo along with death or glory nature of the RAC would be just about right sort of a match. If you are worried about range you can always fly with detachable fuel pods IMO. Aside from that Vagabond's idea to mount small cockpit and extra armour might be just the thing you are looking for. Ferro-alluminium armour is largely a waste of money on this.
You could also go for a fusion engine and PPC or ERLL with some secondary weapons, but it seems you want to keep it cheap and simple.
Eitherway I'd disregard MGs and in case that you really want to mount anything besides the big gun, then RL-10s could offer some real bang for your money.
In case that you could use fuel cell you could easily push this to 7/11 speed, but I'm not sure whether it's possible to mount this type of engine on conventional fighters...
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Vagabond
Mercenary
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Jun-2013 05:04 Post subject: Re: P-14 Falcon |
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| Sleeping Dragon wrote: | | Aside from that Vagabond's idea to mount small cockpit and extra armour might be just the thing you are looking for. Ferro-alluminium armour is largely a waste of money on this. |
This has max armor already. Conventionals get no armor capability what so ever.
| wrote: |
Eitherway I'd disregard MGs and in case that you really want to mount anything besides the big gun, then RL-10s could offer some real bang for your money. |
I would have agreed to this before I gained some good experience with aeros in atmosphere on a Megamek server. MGs shoot to short range in atmo (6 atmosphere hexes) just like a medium laser. It has a pen value of 2, thus checking for crits on anything with 24 or less armor. Unless using optional rules, a MG still forces a PSR check at the end of turn phase or loose control and drop 1d6 altitudes. Lastly, if your using optional rules, allow MGs to fire Rapid Fire upping potential damage to 6 but averaging 2.5. A conventional with 2 or 3 MGs when deployed in 2 or 3 to 1 ratios can really hurt aeroes.
| wrote: | | In case that you could use fuel cell you could easily push this to 7/11 speed, but I'm not sure whether it's possible to mount this type of engine on conventional fighters... |
I believe its restricted to ground vehicles.
| TOps p.308 wrote: | | ICE- or Fuel Cell-powered BattleMechs cannot mount jump jets |
As jump jets in LAMs become the turbines, i'd hazard to guess that no it can't be used on Conventionals.
fyi, my book is unavailable atm so I can't just check.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Jun-2013 05:15 Post subject: Re: P-14 Falcon |
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| Vagabond wrote: | Why an LB 2-X?
why not a LAC/2 or 5?
what about streaks?
maybe a TBolt 5?
how do you feel about a small aerospace cockpit? given its an escort for bombers, comfort might be useful.
To bad chemical lasers are clan only. |
I had this built on paper prior to the LAC 2 or 5 coming out. I didn't want to go the all missile route if I could avoid it. Again same as the LACs, the design was put on paper first then later put into HMA. The LB-X2 seemed like a good idea with the cluster ammo since it would be unexpected and could give it some ability to strike ground targets.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
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Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 18-Jun-2013 06:37 Post subject: Re: P-14 Falcon |
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It can sustain an additional half ton, no? Maximum armour is 20 points. The other half ton could go for the RAC tinkering I suggested before. Aside from that it could also mount AMS if it wanted to stay aloft a bit longer. The ability to pierce 24 points of aero armour is not much when you want to serve as an escort. Mostly it will have to face aerospace units that can withstand this IMO. I'd at least invest in an MG array that ups the damage without optional rules in play.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Jun-2013 17:35 Post subject: P-14 Falcon |
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SRM version
| wrote: | AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: P-14 Falcon Mk2a
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type: Conventional Fighter
Rules: Level 1, Standard design
Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 20 tons
Length: 25 meters
Power Plant: 100 Turbine
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
3 SRM 4
2 Machine Gun
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: P-14 Falcon Mk2a
Mass: 20 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant: 100 Turbine 6.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Structural Integrity: 5 .00
Total Heat Sinks: 0 Single .00
Fuel: 3.00
Cockpit, Avionics & Attitude Thrusters: 2.00
Armor Type: Standard (8 total armor pts) .50
Standard Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Nose: 2
Left/Right Wings: 2/2
Aft: 2
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 SRM 4 Nose 6 -- -- -- 0 2.00
Ammo (SRM 4) 25 --- 1.00
2 Machine Gun Nose 2 -- -- -- 0 1.00
Ammo (MG) 100 --- .50
1 SRM 4 RW 6 -- -- -- 0 2.00
1 SRM 4 LW 6 -- -- -- 0 2.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 0 20.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 340,597 C-Bills
Battle Value: 210
Cost per BV: 1,621.89
Weapon Value: 221 (Ratio = 1.05)
Damage Factors: SRV = 20; MRV = 0; LRV = 0; ERV = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 5, Armor/Structure: 0 / 0
Damage PB/M/L: 2/-/-, Overheat: 0
Class: FL; Point Value: 2
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Jun-2013 17:36 Post subject: P-14 Falcon |
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Second SRM version:
| Code: | AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: P-14 Falcon Mk2b
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type: Conventional Fighter
Rules: Level 1, Standard design
Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 20 tons
Length: 25 meters
Power Plant: 100 Turbine
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
1 SRM 4
1 SRM 6
2 Machine Gun
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: P-14 Falcon Mk2b
Mass: 20 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant: 100 Turbine 6.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Structural Integrity: 5 .00
Total Heat Sinks: 0 Single .00
Fuel: 3.00
Cockpit, Avionics & Attitude Thrusters: 2.00
Armor Type: Standard (8 total armor pts) .50
Standard Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Nose: 2
Left/Right Wings: 2/2
Aft: 2
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 SRM 4 Nose 6 -- -- -- 0 2.00
Ammo (SRM 4) 25 --- 1.00
1 SRM 6 Nose 8 -- -- -- 0 3.00
Ammo (SRM 6) 15 --- 1.00
2 Machine Gun Nose 2 -- -- -- 0 1.00
Ammo (MG) 100 --- .50
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 0 20.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 326,297 C-Bills
Battle Value: 194
Cost per BV: 1,681.94
Weapon Value: 246 (Ratio = 1.27)
Damage Factors: SRV = 17; MRV = 0; LRV = 0; ERV = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 5, Armor/Structure: 0 / 0
Damage PB/M/L: 2/-/-, Overheat: 0
Class: FL; Point Value: 2
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Jun-2013 17:36 Post subject: P-14 Falcon |
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| Code: | AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: P-14 Falcon Mk2c
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type: Conventional Fighter
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 20 tons
Length: 25 meters
Power Plant: 100 Turbine
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
2 Streak SRM 4
2 Machine Gun
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: P-14 Falcon Mk2c
Mass: 20 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant: 100 Turbine 6.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Structural Integrity: 5 .00
Total Heat Sinks: 0 Single .00
Fuel: 3.00
Cockpit, Avionics & Attitude Thrusters: 2.00
Armor Type: Standard (8 total armor pts) .50
Standard Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Nose: 2
Left/Right Wings: 2/2
Aft: 2
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Streak SRM 4 Nose 8 -- -- -- 0 6.00
Ammo (Streak 4) 25 --- 1.00
2 Machine Gun Nose 2 -- -- -- 0 1.00
Ammo (MG) 100 --- .50
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 0 20.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 370,297 C-Bills
Battle Value: 214
Cost per BV: 1,730.36
Weapon Value: 273 (Ratio = 1.28)
Damage Factors: SRV = 18; MRV = 0; LRV = 0; ERV = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 5, Armor/Structure: 0 / 0
Damage PB/M/L: 2/-/-, Overheat: 0
Class: FL; Point Value: 2
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
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Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Jun-2013 17:38 Post subject: P-14 Falcon |
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Then these two are fusion based engine versions:
| Code: | AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: P-14 Falcon Mk 1a
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type: Conventional Fighter
Rules: Level 1, Standard design
Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 20 tons
Length: 25 meters
Power Plant: 120 Fusion
Safe Thrust: 6
Maximum Thrust: 9
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
3 SRM 4
1 Small Laser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: P-14 Falcon Mk 1a
Mass: 20 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant: 120 Fusion 4.00
Engine Shielding: 2.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 6
Maximum Thrust: 9
Structural Integrity: 6 .00
Total Heat Sinks: 10 Single .00
Fuel: 3.00
Cockpit, Avionics & Attitude Thrusters: 2.00
Armor Type: Standard (8 total armor pts) .50
Standard Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Nose: 2
Left/Right Wings: 2/2
Aft: 2
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 SRM 4 Nose 6 -- -- -- 0 2.00
Ammo (SRM 4) 25 --- 1.00
1 Small Laser Nose 3 -- -- -- 1 .50
1 SRM 4 RW 6 -- -- -- 0 2.00
1 SRM 4 LW 6 -- -- -- 0 2.00
Ammo (SRM 4) 25 --- 1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 1 20.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 566,555 C-Bills
Battle Value: 235
Cost per BV: 2,410.87
Weapon Value: 238 (Ratio = 1.01)
Damage Factors: SRV = 19; MRV = 0; LRV = 0; ERV = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 6, Armor/Structure: 0 / 0
Damage PB/M/L: 2/-/-, Overheat: 0
Class: FL; Point Value: 2
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| Code: | AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
* CUSTOM WEAPON
Class/Model/Name: P-14 Falcon Mk1
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type: Conventional Fighter
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 20 tons
Length: 25 meters
Power Plant: 100 Fusion
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Armor Type: Ferro-aluminum
Armament:
1 Light AC/5*
2 Machine Gun
2 ER Medium Laser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: P-14 Falcon Mk1
Mass: 20 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant: 100 Fusion 3.00
Engine Shielding: 1.50
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Structural Integrity: 5 .00
Total Heat Sinks: 10 Single .00
Fuel: 3.00
Cockpit, Avionics & Attitude Thrusters: 2.00
Armor Type: Ferro-aluminum (17 total armor pts) 1.00
Standard Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Nose: 5
Left/Right Wings: 4/4
Aft: 4
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Light AC/5* Nose 5 5 -- -- 0 5.00
Ammo (LAC/5) 20 --- 1.00
1 Machine Gun RW 2 -- -- -- 0 .50
1 Machine Gun LW 2 -- -- -- 0 .50
Ammo (MG) 100 --- .50
1 ER Medium Laser RW 5 5 -- -- 5 1.00
1 ER Medium Laser LW 5 5 -- -- 5 1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 10 20.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 608,447 C-Bills
Battle Value: 324
Cost per BV: 1,877.92
Weapon Value: 369 (Ratio = 1.14)
Damage Factors: SRV = 17; MRV = 11; LRV = 0; ERV = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 5, Armor/Structure: 0 / 0
Damage PB/M/L: 2/2/-, Overheat: 0
Class: FL; Point Value: 3
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 19-Jun-2013 00:45 Post subject: P-14 Falcon |
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Of the standard SRM variants I think that the first one with tripple SRM-4s and MGs is superior. With the fusion powered variants I'd also consider using a snub-nosed PPC or a LL with one medium laser for backup. The rest cn be a variety of small arms or perhaps an AMS.
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