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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Location: United States
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 Posted: 03-Jun-2013 22:03 Post subject: TRO 3145 DAVION |
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Okay nice Battletechnology references the Kruger and Marten and the Sniper Arty tank. And the Black Knight variant looks a lot like the Challenger drawings from the Battletechnology magazines. Nice to see that they are using the older stuff.
Not sure about the 200 ton siege tank...for the resources tossed into it one could a lot better with smaller vehicles and mechs.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
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Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 04-Jun-2013 03:17 Post subject: TRO 3145 DAVION |
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Exactly, but most of the oversized vehicles and XL engine tanks are pure waste of resources that could be better spent on more numerous cheaper vehicles. The only thing that could mentally justify these is an effort to pack as much BV in single dropship bay as possible, which mostly doesn't apply for superheavy things as they need extra bays to transport.
Personally I try to pack all my tanks to 50 tons so that they fit in light vee bay.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
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| Posted: 04-Jun-2013 09:48 Post subject: TRO 3145 DAVION |
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Don't forget the crews and the time it takes to train crewmen. 1 200t super-heavy is only a single crew were as 4 50t is 4 crews. Less man power lose per tank.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
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| Posted: 04-Jun-2013 13:13 Post subject: TRO 3145 DAVION |
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Well, how many men do you need to man four smaller tanks and how many do you need for the siege monster? According to old Maximum Tech it was tonnage divided by 15, so for a 50t tank you need three men and for 200 ton tank 13. Four tanks still rule 
Aside from that art in Davion TRO is markedly better and some vehicles are really good. 'Mech and aerospace design part suffers from some serious XLgasm and packs a lot of clan tech, but otherwise there are some good installments.
From this TRO I definitely like the Templar III, Centurion, Zibler, Sortek, Hasek, JI2A1, Marten, Kruger and Fusilier.
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
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Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: 05-Jun-2013 10:41 Post subject: Re: TRO 3145 DAVION |
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| Sleeping Dragon wrote: | | Well, how many men do you need to man four smaller tanks and how many do you need for the siege monster? According to old Maximum Tech it was tonnage divided by 15, so for a 50t tank you need three men and for 200 ton tank 13. Four tanks still rule |
You'll have to round up, if i remember right, so it's a crew of 4 for a 50ton tank and a crew of 14 for the 200ton monster
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 05-Jun-2013 10:53 Post subject: TRO 3145 DAVION |
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Either way the 50 ton tanks have more uses then the single use 200 ton monster that dies in a couple of turns.
Was reading through some of the fluff text in the TRO and noticed a lot of missing words or sentences that seem to be there to add something but just stop, this shows up a lot in this TRO as if word count issues came into play. Wish they would go back to the older format of the original 3025/3026 TROs, Overview, Capabilities, Battle History, Deployment and then the Notable Pilots etc...seems the new way of doing things is to combine the middle three as much as possible in which it makes no sense at times as to what the mech or vehicle can or can't do.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
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| Posted: 05-Jun-2013 15:27 Post subject: TRO 3145 DAVION |
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Well, I have to second that sentinent...
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
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| Posted: 06-Jun-2013 11:05 Post subject: TRO 3145 DAVION |
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I prefer four 50 tonners insteád of a 200 ton monster too.
Just the crew saving aspect goes lightly in favor of the heavier vehicle but i wouldn't choose it therefore.
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Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
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| Posted: 06-Jun-2013 12:26 Post subject: TRO 3145 DAVION |
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How come the crew saving goes in favour of heavier vehicle? The number of men is about the same and I don't think the oversized tank will offer any additional protection as it's just as vulnerable to criticals and it will be targeted by just as many shots as four tanks together...
EDIT: as I'm reading further I must add that I rather like the Sniper tank
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Vagabond
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| Posted: 06-Jun-2013 19:17 Post subject: TRO 3145 DAVION |
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Thats why I said add Hardened Armor to the Land Crab in the Design section, prevents TACs.
I honestly dunno.
Bigger designs allow for more toys.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
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| Posted: 07-Jun-2013 00:05 Post subject: TRO 3145 DAVION |
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I wouldn't say that bigger designs allow more toys. At least not at the same speed profile, since four 150 XL engines weigh 18 tons and one 400 XL engine weighs 40 tons (and here I'm using the lightest engine type, where the difference is the smallest). That's somewhat mitigated by the need to pack four turrets, albeit smaller. Internal structure and control equipment weigh the same, but four smaller tanks go 50% faster and have some 20 more tons to play with among themselves and I also carry 30 more internal heat sinks for free on fusion engines. I thought that this kinda is a common knowledge, that big engines are horribly inefficient and thus you'll mostly have more bang out of more smaller units than from mammoth one.
Here I have quickly cobbled together a demonstration unit, that while lighter on the armour side (32 t vs. 37 t on Destrier, but sides on smaller vehicles are not separated to two different locations) and lacking extra communications equipment (well, technically each vehicle counts as having one ton for free, so four tanks do pack four tons as opposed to Destrier's two), packs four ECMs, four Long Toms (and four ER lasers). That's double firepower and I also have to mention the ability to pass normal bridges as well.
Quarterdestrier
Total weight: 50 t
Internal structure: 5 t
Engine: 100 XL 2.5 t
Speed: 2/3
Heat sinks: 10 standard 0 t
Control equipment: 2.5 t
Turret: 2.5 t
Armour: 64 Hardened 8 t
Front/Sides/Rear/Turret: 15/13/10/13
Weapons and Equipment
Long Tom Canon/Turret/20 t
Long Tom Ammo (2x5)/Body/2 t
ER laser (M)/Turret/1 t
AMS/Turret/0.5 t
AMS ammo (12)/Body/1 t
Light MG/Turret/0.5 t
Light MG ammo (150)/Body/0.5 t
C3 slave/Body/1 t
Guardian ECM suite/Body/1.5 t
Infantry/Body/1 t
CASE/Body/0.5 t
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Vagabond
Mercenary
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| Posted: 07-Jun-2013 01:57 Post subject: TRO 3145 DAVION |
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Oh I actually agree with you fully. If you look at my NUSSR units, my tanks are 50 or less. Massed tanks, BA, arty, and air will put the hurt on more technological enemies.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
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| Posted: 07-Jun-2013 14:09 Post subject: TRO 3145 DAVION |
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Well, life is cheap, 'Mechs aren't 
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 07-Jun-2013 22:16 Post subject: TRO 3145 DAVION |
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Having a show piece of equipment more of the Death Star like approach, you know it's big, it's mean and if it can be brought into play it's going to be painful to the other side. YET it can be killed very easily. So really these 200 ton tanks wouldn't be transported around the universe or found on every planet...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Vagabond
Mercenary
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| Posted: 08-Jun-2013 01:41 Post subject: TRO 3145 DAVION |
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Unless its Lyran.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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