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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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 Posted: 31-Oct-2010 12:39 Post subject: Proposals for Infantry Weapons and Deployment |
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Hey folks,
So I have a question regarding the two topics mentioned above.
First, is a concept for a support infantry weapon series. Based around old Anti-Tank Rifles, I think that, in the BattleTech universe, such a weapon would make a come back. You would have a light, medium, and heavy anti-tank rifle. The light would represent 35mm to 45mm, medium would be 46 to 55mm, and heavy would range from 56 to 88mm for fluff purposes.
In terms of actual rules, I would design them as follows:
Anti-Tank Gun
Introduced: Pre-Spaceflight
Anti-Tank Guns were first introduced to the battlefield shortly after the introduction of the first tank. As armor improved, AT guns fell to the way side in favor of missile technology. Missiles, being able to pack more punch, were considered more valuable. Still, the AT gun held on. Simple in design, and cheap to produce, they have managed to reassert themselves on the 31st century battlefield, providing infantry with a good long range knock out punch against armor.
Anti-Tank Gun, Light
Tech Rating: IS/Clan (B/A)
Class/Type (Damage Type): Medium/Support (B)
Base Range: 6
Damage (Each): 0.34
Weight of Weapon/Ammo (Shots): 150kg/10kg (5)
Crew: 2
b]Anti-Tank Gun, Medium[/b]
Tech Rating: IS/Clan (B/A)
Class/Type (Damage Type): Medium/Support (B)
Base Range: 4
Damage (Each): 0.74
Weight of Weapon/Ammo (Shots): 2000kg/20kg (5)
Crew: 3
b]Anti-Tank Gun, Heavy[/b]
Tech Rating: IS/Clan (B/A)
Class/Type (Damage Type): Medium/Support (B)
Base Range: 2
Damage (Each): 1.50
Weight of Weapon/Ammo (Shots): 250kg/30kg (5)
Crew: 4
(Actual Use: First, these make great weapons for small support vehicles which need a bit of extra fire power. These are not intended as heavy armor pounding guns, but are instead meant to provide long range shells that can hit, and potentially knock out, armored vehicles using the crit rules. A squad manning a heavy AT gun would probably set up in a protected firing spot, such as in heavy woods, and rain shells down on anything it could hit. Most of these can be set to burst fire too, firing a small stream of shells, which allow them to work as AA guns in the classic 88mm tradition!).
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Next, I wanted to address infantry deployment strategy.
I've been playing a number of 3025 games recently, in which infantry are allowed. Actually we allow armored exoskeletons, conventional vehicles, infantry, conventional fighters, aerospace fighters, BattleMechs, and of course some dropships and jumpships in space based games. Essentially TRO:3025 and 3026 are all open, and we sometimes bring our own vehicles to the game. New BattleMechs are only allowed if you have enough salvage! 
One of the things we have been doing is using small support vehicles (1,000 kg to 4999kg in weight) to represent the transports that make infantry motorized, mechanized, hover, track, wheel, vtol, or fixed wing (ultra light). This has greatly expanded the roll of infantry in the 3025 era, which, I think, is a good thing.
Infantry represent a good cheap investment for a world, and all the books say that infantry make up the backbone of world defense, and yet.... where are they?
So here is my question to anyone who wants to talk about this:
How do you deploy infantry?
My Answer:
Aggressively!
I have started using infantry far more aggressively since getting TechManual. Mechanized infantry, especially, become deadly little bastards. Though they are slow, and usually take heavy casualties, I can often inflict serious damage with a squad against a BattleMech. One of my strategies is using a significant and deadly base of fire to control a choke point (i.e. three or four motorized squads deployed with field guns (AC/10). I will have two or three platoons that are set up like that.
I have an additional platoon using a support vehicle loaded up with LRMs. This is a long range support machine, usually hover so it can move quickly and bring missiles to bear where needed.
Finally, I have two to four platoons of heavy mechanized infantry (usually 4,500 kg tracked vehicles) that bring support weapons to bear, such as portable-PPCs, heavy machine guns, recoilless rifles, etc. They can usually inflict 3 to 5 points of damage per squad per round, when close enough.
I then use the mechanized infantry to draw the BattleMechs in to the choke points, using my hover based infantry to hit the field where necessary.
When I hit the choke point, I have my squads spread out, and then come back together as the BattleMech enters the same spot. Here they engage point blank as the Autocannons open up.
Using this methodology I've had some success taking down BattleMechs.
Problems: You can't use the same trick twice!
The second time I deployed in the same way, my opponent just moved a few jump capable battlemechs behind my trap and slaughtered my field gun infantry. I was able to still inflict some good damage though before I lost them all. The problem was that infantry just aren't mobile without loosing protection. you can't have both mobility and solid protection.
Mechanized infantry are always going to be a threat if handled correctly. I've been able to put 15 points of vehicle grade armor onto a small support vehicle, and still have significant fire power and a squad of infantry. Four of these deployed made Clan Elementals look weak. This isn't to say that they are always going to kick ass, in fact, sometimes they die slow and horrible deaths, but significantly raise the level of threat on the battle field and need to be addressed by the opponent, instead of ignored.
Motorized infantry are about mobility, and getting from point A to point B quickly well under cover. After they arrive where they are going, i suggest deploying them as foot infantry on the defensive (i.e. fighting from woods, rubble or buildings). They will get more protection, and if their speed is used correctly, you should be able to deploy before opposition arrives.
Foot infantry do have a place on the field. Given appropriate heavy weapons and good deployment, foot infantry can guard platoons carrying field guns or field artillery. They can also guard other important points on the map as well. Usually I deploy them with light recoilless rifles and auto-rifles. Gives em a good punch at low cost, and should make light mechs be very careful. A Wasp, for example, thinking to wipe out a heavy field gun emplacement, can see itself get torn to pieces be two platoons of foot infantry.
VTOL and Fixed-Wing deployed infantry are good scouts but get torn apart easily. AA infantry will take em down with little to no effort, and one machine gun armed mech can blast em to pieces. Small conventional fixed wing craft loaded with paratroopers can move foot infantry into place quickly, a la the D-Day invasion. This makes more sense in a campaign then it does in a tactical game.
Those are my thoughts on that!
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 31-Oct-2010 19:32 Post subject: Proposals for Infantry Weapons and Deployment |
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I thought that you can actually deploy the infantry with actual AC/2s and AC/5s as field guns. You certainly could under Maximum Tech rules, abut I didn't look that up in new rules. Got to check that later.
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Oct-2010 21:00 Post subject: Proposals for Infantry Weapons and Deployment |
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| You can at a significant cost in maneuverability and manpower. And you can use AC/2, AC/5, AC/10, AC/20, LAC/2, LAC/5, any Ultra, any LB, Guass Rifles, etc etc. You just need to have one infantry man for each ton of the weapon itself.
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
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Joined: 03-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 6075
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Nov-2010 12:10 Post subject: Proposals for Infantry Weapons and Deployment |
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Infantry, what are those?
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Nov-2010 12:47 Post subject: Proposals for Infantry Weapons and Deployment |
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| Remember those little red spots on your 'Mechs feet? Those were once people! True story! If you check some of your security cams, you might even see pics to prove it!
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 01-Nov-2010 13:41 Post subject: Proposals for Infantry Weapons and Deployment |
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Aye, those are the slowpokes...
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Nov-2010 15:12 Post subject: Proposals for Infantry Weapons and Deployment |
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When I invoked that rule in my campaign, I treated them as run-of-the-mill towed guns; I had it that they were mounted to a crude carriage and sported a few points of armor apiece. Imagine something like this.
Given that they were deployed in a defensive position around an airstrip the party was tasked with capturing, they actually made it a point to take the things intact on the logic that they could use them for defensive purposes just as well as the infantry who were actually defending the base.
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Nov-2010 20:18 Post subject: Proposals for Infantry Weapons and Deployment |
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Hehehe I think you can armor them... well you could in MaxTech, I haven't found anything in TechManual or TacOps that says you can. Still, I would allow it, no more then a half ton of ammo, and then only with Mechanized Infantry.
But I also allow Bunkers to be made too, and other fortifications for infantry. What would make for a fun battle is a series of seemingly isolated bunkers and strong points on a map, all connected via tunnels and an underground fortress. You start to pound a fortified point into submission as it roars autocannon fire at you, and suddenly it goes quiet and the infantry disappear, only to start assaulting you from some place else. Bwahahahahaha
That will teach you for going into a city!
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Nov-2010 22:41 Post subject: Re: Proposals for Infantry Weapons and Deployment |
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| Raven! wrote: | Hehehe I think you can armor them... well you could in MaxTech, I haven't found anything in TechManual or TacOps that says you can. Still, I would allow it, no more then a half ton of ammo, and then only with Mechanized Infantry.
But I also allow Bunkers to be made too, and other fortifications for infantry. What would make for a fun battle is a series of seemingly isolated bunkers and strong points on a map, all connected via tunnels and an underground fortress. You start to pound a fortified point into submission as it roars autocannon fire at you, and suddenly it goes quiet and the infantry disappear, only to start assaulting you from some place else. Bwahahahahaha
That will teach you for going into a city! |
I did something similar for the campaign.
The main good guy faction resided in an area that was surrounded on virtually all sides by mountains and hills. Each of the main road and rail paths through the terrain was seemingly guarded by fixed defenses.
The one exception appeared to be a canyon several miles south, which was so far out that it had but a token defensive position in place (little more than an infantry encampment).
Thing is, that canyon was actually a trap; the infantry defending the encampment had orders to flee if even a vaguely decent offensive came against them.
Once an attacker got about half-way through the canyon, they'd find that the place wasn't as unguarded as they thought. Remote-activated mines would trigger, getting anything ground-based. Pillboxes and murder holes would emerge, allowing infantry to fire an assortment of weapons down on the OPFOR; they'd all be inter-connected, allowing for rapid movement between them. Those OPFOR units who tried to flee would find the entrance of the canyon was pre-programmed into the FCS of several different artillery vehicles as a target, while those who tried to go deeper would be greeted by a mixed force of SRM carriers, Goblin tanks, and anti-mech / anti-tank infantry. Any attempts to call in air support would be met by a series of hidden LRM launchers.
The last time a serious offensive was made against the region was when Marik & Laio tried to take the planet during the main part of the Chaos March offensive. A reinforced Marik mech battalion went in, thinking that they were going in for the kill. A battered lance crawled back to friendly lines, the devastation being such that neither faction ever tried to attack it again and even the Wobblies are hesitant to make another frontal assault.
_________________
"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2010 08:16 Post subject: Proposals for Infantry Weapons and Deployment |
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| On the defensive, infantry and fortifications work great! The only problem is if a siege is set up, and the defenders are starved out. Didn't one of the old source books have a note that a Castle Brian is only as good as the mobile force it is designed to protect?
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Nov-2010 16:01 Post subject: Proposals for Infantry Weapons and Deployment |
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I'm now working on a new idea focusing on:
Infantry - Deployed primarily as foot infantry
Cavalry - Deployed as a mounted infantry fighting from vehicles
Support Infantry - Deployed with field guns/artillery
Strategic Rocket Infantry - Deployed with Arrow IV Missile systems
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