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CYBRN4CR
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Private
Joined: 16-Feb-2010 09:33
Posts: 49
Location: United States
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 Posted: 16-Feb-2010 10:06 Post subject: How much ammo is too much for a mech? |
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Hello. Just joined on recommendation from Karagin.
Before I start posting any of my designs, I have to get this question out of the way first. I was wondering how much ammo is too much for a mech?
I play MegaMek semi-regularly to test out some designs and play semi-large battles against computer opponents.
Now, based off of my experiences playing MegaMek, I find myself running out of ammo a lot, because either my shots miss, or if they hit they don't do damage where it's effective. No, I don't fire my weps when I have 9-12+ to-hit values...I'm not that dumb. 
So based on my experiences, I like to go with the rule of 24 shots per wep when it comes to Gauss Rifles and LRMs (25 for SRMs and 30 minimum for Autocannons). It gives plenty of breathing room for shots to not be effective, while not being totally paranoid. 
So is 24 shots for a Gauss Rifle or LRM 20 asking too much? I'd like to believe it's not, but I need more opinions here. 
On a related topic, can the rule of 24 be applied to Clan mechs? Or am I totally in the wrong with this one?
P.S. Karagin, I know your opinion, so you don't need to repeat yourself. 
_________________
Cheers,
CYBRN4CR "Cyber Enforcer"
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Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 16-Feb-2010 13:10 Post subject: How much ammo is too much for a mech? |
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Hey, Welcome to the Bar and Grill.
I find it is dependent entirely on the role you want to push the mech into. But I find that 20+ is a great ballpark figure to play with. Me and my usual play partner tend to focus on 16+ mech battles (we just finished a marathon 19vs19 battle). So there is plenty or room for different role mechs. We have one armed with two light gauss rifles and 40 or so rounds and because we use it as a sniper it is not uncommon for it to run out of ammo before the end of the game.
We also have a mech armed with 4 RAC5's and 160 rounds of ammo. It is a great brawler but almost always dies through ammo explosion.
I think if you plan on using it as a supporting mech then lay on as much ammo as you can. Gausses don't need to factor explosions so you really only need to consider how long you expect the mech to live compared to the tonnage you devote to ammo over armour and support weapons.
My general rule is, a brawler/penetrating mech, not so much ammo as it will not live long enough. Support/skirmisher, lay on the ammo and try to keep out of harms way. 24 rounds for Gauss and LRM20 fits the second tactic more than the first.
It's rather lengthy but hope it helps! 
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Constant exposure to dangers will breed contempt for them-Seneca
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Feb-2010 13:13 Post subject: How much ammo is too much for a mech? |
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Welcome to the board!
I actually look at ammo comsumption based on a campaign. So if I just ammo weapons I prefer to have them with at least 2 to 4 tons depending on the weapon. Streak launchers I will go with lower loads because they are less likley to waste the shots.
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Feb-2010 15:04 Post subject: How much ammo is too much for a mech? |
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Hey glad you could join... so I won't mention that your mechs have elite pilots, full armor, all Clan tech and don't need to worry about heat. 
But I am glad to see that you are expanding out into the other boards I hope to see you join over at Heavy Metal Pro and some of the others. Looking forward to seeing more of your mechs posted.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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CYBRN4CR
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Private
Joined: 16-Feb-2010 09:33
Posts: 49
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Feb-2010 18:37 Post subject: How much ammo is too much for a mech? |
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Karagin's totally missing the fact that I had Inner Sphere designs, with Inner Sphere tech, without the need for elite pilots. Besides, I never said my Clan designs were piloted by elite pilots. Just because I have one elite story character from the Inner Sphere in a Clan mech does not mean I always have elite pilots in my mechs. The mech is seperate from the pilot, quiaff?
But he is right, I do try to have full armor, and virtually no heat issues on all my designs, Clan or Inner Sphere.
Now I think Wanallo's responce is the best I've had so far. And I thank you, Wanallo for that.
Most of my mechs act as snipers, so they hang around at extreme-long range sending volleys downstream.
But with your comment about brawler mechs, Wanallo, can I assume most Clan mechs operate as if they were brawler's, even in a design with mostly long-range weapons (eg. Mad Dog, Stone Rhino) due to their love for 1 v 1 fights?
If so, what would be a more appropriate number for their Gausses, LRMs, and Autocannons because I just think their ammo levels are abysmal.
_________________
Cheers,
CYBRN4CR "Cyber Enforcer"
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Feb-2010 10:57 Post subject: How much ammo is too much for a mech? |
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I'll voice my opinion here as well.
I try to make sure my Mech is balanced, and has enough ammo to last awhile... but also to have enough energy weapons that empty ammo bins don't make it a walking target.
There are some special case rules I tend to stick with.
Gauss Rifles: 24 MINIMUM per rifle, so I CAN shoot while I have 9+ to hit.
LBX ACs: I need at least 2 tons, so I can have 1 of slugs and 1 of Cluster. I prefer to use a 2 to 1 (slugs to cluster) ratio for them if I can spare the space.
Streak SRMs: Lower than normal, in fact I usually only do 1 ton per launcher for 6s, 2 tons per 3 launchers for 4s, and 1 ton per 2 or 3 launchers for 2s.
Ultra ACs: I almost always fire @ double rate, so I need at least twice the ammo.
RACs: Triple ammo, so I can adjust firing rates without eating through to nothing.
As a standard rule I try and have enough shots for 15 rounds of combat though. If I've not done the job by then, I may need to start thinking about retreating
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 17-Feb-2010 11:34 Post subject: How much ammo is too much for a mech? |
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Hello there!
Personally I don't mind overheat THAT much.
For ammo I prefer to have some durability, but everything should be ballanced.
Weapons that I want to fire all day long (like AC/5) are fine with 20 - 30 game rounds durability, main guns that have at least medium range should be able to last some 20 rounds. For short range guns I'm fine with some 15 rounds, perhaps 10 if they are just for backup.
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The dragon NEVER sleeps!
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CYBRN4CR
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Private
Joined: 16-Feb-2010 09:33
Posts: 49
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Feb-2010 14:26 Post subject: How much ammo is too much for a mech? |
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Thank you everyone for your responces! 
This has been a really good sharing of personal tastes, and I'm glad to see some of us think alike!
At last, I can post my designs in confidence, and truly get a good discussion. 8)
_________________
Cheers,
CYBRN4CR "Cyber Enforcer"
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Feb-2010 15:46 Post subject: How much ammo is too much for a mech? |
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You better just watch out of my version of the "GaussZilla" or, in point of fact, my clan "Wraith" because they're both death dealers extraordinare!
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 17-Feb-2010 18:18 Post subject: How much ammo is too much for a mech? |
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Just to make my point clearer on my definition of 'brawlers'
I defiea brawler mech as an I.S or Clan design that just 'dives' into a battle. Usually a heavy or assault that will take on two or three lighter mechs at close range in an attempt to break through or simply pin them down. My 90ton 4xRAC5 mech is my prime example. With eight tonnes of ammo you want to get in and use up those rounds and put a lot of hurt into the enemies. Ammo conservation is of less importance than shock value.
It is a risky strategy in that you will almost always lose the mech. But the attention that the enemy player will need to give to it simply to contain the threat is invaluable. Plus it allows your 'snipers' chance to pick off enemies or find good positions.
Thus, the lifespan of my brawler mechs in heated combat barely rises above 5-7 turns. Firing four RAC5's on Quad shot over 7 turns is 112 rounds and a potential 560 damage. Thus, a brawler is a short lived firestorm that has less emphasis on longetivity.
P.S, thanks for the best reply part! I try to make my posts thorough, f somewhat lengthy!
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Constant exposure to dangers will breed contempt for them-Seneca
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
Major
Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 1460
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 07-Mar-2010 04:27 Post subject: How much ammo is too much for a mech? |
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I agree with the rest here
If you have got long range weapons and want to stay back for firesupport 20+ rounds will be fine. If you want to use them only to cover your advance (to get in "brawling" range) around 10 rounds will be enough.
Slugging it out at close range will not need much ammo either as life expectancy tends to run short in this situations as your armor will more likely vanish faster than your ammo.
Streaks are a special case here
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Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
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