|
|
|
Mordel's Bar & Grill |
|
  |
» |
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
|
 Posted: 16-Sep-2008 13:50 Post subject: WVR-6* Wolverine |
  |
|
In answer to a request by Vampire, here is one of the true stalwarts of 3025 - the Wolverine. One of the original 14, one of the classic trio of 55-tonners.
And I always preferred it to the two others. The Griffin should be categorised as a Sniper, anyways, and the Wolverine is just plain superior to the Shadow Hawk. But rather than comparisons with other chasses, let's have a look at the differing variants of this design. And though the basic Wolverine setup remains very similar in all three of them, there is actually a decided shift in doctrine between the models.
WVR-6R - The basic chassis is probably the ultimate SKIRMISHER of 3025. It is a design of sheer beauty. An adequate 9.5 tons of armour protect it. It features 3 weapons, nicely between the Griffin’s 2 and the Shadow Hawk’s 4. Unlike the Griffin, it can shoot them all at once, unlike the Shadow Hawk, they can actually be combined quite effectively and will do more damage. It is definitely one of the nicest heat balanced designs in all of the 3025 era, allowing it to jump and be capable of “…using all of its weapons in the way a good skirmisher must.” (First Strike, p. 15, description of why the Dervish is *not* a Skirmisher)
I like the range of the AC5, I like the gun itself (see my sig), the back-up of an SRM6 and a ML are really quite nice, with a bit of luck, this design – clearly more of a heavy scout than a line fighter – can even force a piloting skill roll.
I love it, I love it, it is one of the most versatile things available!
WVR-6K – There are two reasons why the Kuritan Wolverine stops being a Skirmisher and enters the pantheon of BRAWLERs. A) It drops the jump jets, making it more of a line ‘Mech (the only First Strike Skirmisher to not mount JJ was the Hermes II, which does move slightly faster). B) It maxes out the armour to a fantastic 11.5 tons.
Granted, the real qualification for Skirmisher is a relative lack of fire-power. But the Kuritan Wolverine also boasts the greatest number of guns, replacing the AC5 with three lasers – one of each size. An additional 2 heat sinks help cool all that, though alpha-strikes are pretty much a no-go. I would venture to call this one of the best medium Brawlers of the entire 3025 era. It doesn’t play like a Wolverine, but it definitely beats the pants off of its stable-mate, the Dragon (itself classified as a Brawler in First Strike).
A side note: it also doubles the SRM ammo. This I find questionable, as an endurance of 20 rounds at short ranges is clearly utopic. Another HS would have been more desirable. But at least you can load up with a ton of infernos these days (something that only became a rule with the Master Rules, many years after this variant was first conceived).
WVR-6M – SKIRMISHER/BRAWLER. That says it all. I’m a bit helpless here; the -6M is a medley of the two prior variants. It has the lasers (sans the SL) and the HS of the -6K, it jumps like the -6R and at the same time its 10.5 tons of armour are exactly in the middle of the two others.
It is as mobile as the -6R, but it cannot fire everything as continuously as its parent (which really kind of mirrors the LLvsAC5 debate of the Marauder, but is exacerbated here by the fact that we’re talking about the ‘Mech’s main weaponry), making the worth of an exchange of the main gun questionable in the first place. And it cannot keep the range quite as open as the -6R (though a jumping ‘Mech would be unlikely to hit much at long range in the 3025 era in the first place). Though while fitting the role somewhat, it isn’t as good a Skirmisher as is parent.
Yet compared to the -6K, it clearly only goes halfway to being a brawler. It simply offers the same, minus a SL and a ton of armour. It isn’t as good a Brawler as the Kuritan Wolverine.
However, most people will feel that this is the design’s greatest strength – its versatility ON TOP of it being a very, very solid design in the first place. I know that this is the pin-up of most 3025 ‘Mech jocks.
I personally prefer the mission profile of the vanilla -6R. I have never actually used the -6K, always overlooked it, but will re-evaluate it the next time I lead my Prosperina Hussars to battle. The -6M is way too popular for its own good, which is why I stopped using it after a while. It did way too little for me (over the -6R) that I would be caught using such an obviously popular design! 
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
|
|
| Back to top |
  
|
jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: 16-Sep-2008 14:04 Post subject: CTF-*X Cataphract |
|
|
You're right, the Cataphract is far from perfect. If I were to modify it, I'd do the same thing, but also drop the other ML to add a ton of ammo. And then move that cannon to the LT.
Nevertheless, it is an ace alternative to the Warhammer. And it does mount more armour than that design.
I wouldn't be too fearful of the Hunchback, or even the Victor. It can stay at medium ranges, or even long ranges of those designs and hit them back with 20 damage of its own (that will generally in a range bracket one closer than those AC20s). It also carries more armour than the Hunchback and equal to the Victor.
Sure, the Victor's maneouverability could be a problem, but I would not run with fear when facing either of those two designs in a Cataphract.
The other two Cataphracts, though interesting (4X) / good (2X) are nice variations, but no real alternative to my twin-10-damage bad boy. Lots of good stories to report, the only bummer was when a friend and I taught a newbie how to play. Silly fools we were - we gave him a Marauder II. Our Cataphract and Rifleman didn't stand a chance, even when he wasn't doing much other than standing still... Nope, I, as an instructor, learned a lot on that occasion.
But, Cataphract, in normal games = plain cool! Long live LIAO!!!!! Erm.... 
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: 16-Sep-2008 14:14 Post subject: WVR-6* Wolverine |
|
|
I just looked back at what I wrote previously for the Rifleman:
| jymset wrote: | | There you go. Once again, I put my weight behind the base model. With the exception of the Orion, this is looking like a trend, isn't it? But I for one am glad - I feel that this is the way it should be, the base model being the most attractive buy with the others merely catering to specific flavours of the customer! |
Well, I forgot my own train of continuity, but it certainly rings true, I did it again for the Wolverine.
Life is good! 
As a side note: if all of this looks funny and disjointed, first the WVR post, then a Cataphract reply, now another Wolverine reply - please view all of this in threaded mode! Otherwise, nothing here makes much sense!
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
master arminas
Clan Goliath Scorpion
Star Colonel
Joined: 07-Mar-2007 16:14
Posts: 718
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 17-Sep-2008 09:04 Post subject: 3025 'mechs and their variants reviewed by categories |
|
|
Brilliant! Now where's my T-bolt? I need my T-bolt! 
Arminas tar Valantil
Grand Master of the Ebon Rose
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 917
Location: Spain
|
| Posted: 17-Sep-2008 16:27 Post subject: WVR-6* Wolverine |
|
|
I typed a long answer but it got lost, I will be short and to the point
Wolverine basic. Mediocre, tries to do too much things at once, neither a skirmisher or a brawler due to the bad weapon mix. Undergunned, but better than a Shadow Hawk.
Wolverine K. Mediums are disdained by Dracs as being a unsatisfying compromise. This one is a wannabe heavy, it changes the 'Mech basic profile into something different, still, I would take it over a Dragon, and a Shadow Hawk K over any of them, any day, I am a PPC man.
Wolverine M. If a skirmisher mech is a rifleman taking pot shots under cover, the Wolvie M in keeping with a certain Soviet flavor of FWL tactics is the Red Army soldier armed with a submachinegun, a weapon for an energic and determined man, to break cover, close in with the enemy and engage at close range, using shock effect.
I am in love with this variant ever since I play a company of Marik regulars with no heavy mechs, is the mainstay of our force and I only wish we had more of them,
The Wolverine would improve a lot with home rules but under standard rules both the AC/5 and SRMs suck. Still, not bad, there are many worse, and better than the Shadow Hawk, though not by much,
_________________
Memento audare semper
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
|
| Posted: 18-Sep-2008 04:16 Post subject: CTF-*X Cataphract |
|
|
Of course, the great IF you manage to stay out of reach. CTF is a good 'Mech, but it isn't invulnerable and the pilot must remember that. PPC shower or a walk through the Hetzer Alley was never a great idea, but people used to Orions and T-bolts need to know that not every brawler can withstand the same amount of abuse. Aside from that I'm fine with the CTF.
_________________
The dragon NEVER sleeps!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: 20-Sep-2008 05:06 Post subject: TDR-5* Thunderbolt |
|
|
The Thunderbolt hast been repeatedly requested, by mud (will reply to his old post separately) and ralgith (sort of); now Master Arminias. I have long shirked away from this ‘Mech, a favourite of so many, yet a design for which I have never felt a special affinity.
That is not because it is in any way mediocre – no, it is one of the most reliable line ‘Mechs in the whole 3025 era. But it is that very reliability, its all-round usefulness, which have prevented it from shining in any particular light whenever I’ve used it. It is an anchor and not a unit which special attention by fulfilling special roles – something that can also be seen when we look at its variants.
TDR-5S – The classic Thunderbolt is *the* classic BRAWLER. It has great armour, nice weapons that cover all range brackets nicely and enough heat sinks to use said weapons and keep up a high rate of fire at closer ranges. It is solid on all accounts.
TDR-5SE – There is a small change of doctrine in this variant, typical of its user/designer, the Eridani Light Horse. It mounts jump jets. The only change of weaponry is the reduction in size of the LRM launcher and the removal of the SRMs and MGs. For a 65-tonner, the weaponry is starting to look rather anaemic. Yet it is similar in general to the heaviest SKIRMISHER in First Strike: the Grasshopper. It fares poorly in direct comparison (despite the larger LRM launcher) for two reasons: the lack of a 4th ML (increasing the confidence of forcing a piloting roll) and a lack of HS, making unchecked alpha strikes impossible. But that is only compared to the Grasshopper. It can fire all its laser weaponry while walking without heat or firing the two longer-ranged weapons while jumping, at which stage it even sinks one heat. Which, to me, is an over-abundance of heat sinks in a typical 3025 ‘Mech – 7 tons are invested, after all (and I do love that Rifleman). So, to me, it is either undersinked or oversinked, strange but true!
TDR-5SS – Despite the almost complete change of weaponry, we return to BRAWLER status with this Steiner variant. And I definitely prefer it to the original model; it fulfils that role even more admirably. While not as strong at ranges (only one gun that reaches out beyond short range; less range than the LRMs), that upgrade to a 10-point weapon on the arm is nice. And its short-range weaponry is nicely increased, as are its heat sinks, making the addition of the arm gun even at short ranges very feasible. To me, it is this variant that reigns supreme.
There, and that was it, sorry about its brevity, but I do not have the same emotional attachment as most of you would. Personally, I much prefer the -5SS to the other models, mainly because it feels more powerful. The -5S falls short because of its lack of specialisation. The general-utility approach leaves its main firepower somewhat underwhelming. The -5SE is at least as successful in specialisation as the -5SS. But once you have realised that, you reach another fundamental question. When you invest in a 65-tonner on a 3025 battlefield, which role would you like to have it take care of: Skirmisher or Brawler?
To me, that is no contest. A reflection upon that qualifier may have to result in a set of recommendations for appropriate weight classes to each category.
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: 20-Sep-2008 05:08 Post subject: RE: some musings about variants of 3025 'mechs |
|
|
Well, my new avatar says: It's the other way around!
I've just posted a bit about the Thunderbolt.
(Confused? Remember to view this in threaded mode!)
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: 20-Sep-2008 05:16 Post subject: Re: WVR-6* Wolverine |
|
|
| Vampire wrote: | | Wolverine basic. Mediocre, tries to do too much things at once, neither a skirmisher or a brawler due to the bad weapon mix. Undergunned, but better than a Shadow Hawk. |
Well, a Skirmisher does not *need* to be heavily armed, so I think it fits the bill perfectly. And I don't think this is particularly undergunned, either. It has a higher damage potential than the Griffin (22 vs 20 vs 19 of the crappy Shadow Hawk) and is much better at close ranges (working well with its good speed). Remember also that its lack of firepower compared to the -6M is balanced by its higher rate of fire (due to lower heat). For 3025, I would call its weaponry very adequate.
| Vampire wrote: | | Wolverine K. Mediums are disdained by Dracs as being a unsatisfying compromise. This one is a wannabe heavy, it changes the 'Mech basic profile into something different, still, I would take it over a Dragon, and a Shadow Hawk K over any of them, any day, I am a PPC man. |
I think you nailed it! And I actually quite like this new role which it has.
You're a PPC man? Does that mean you prefer the Griffin to the standard Wolverine.... Hang on, how can a Marik serviceman be a "PPC man"?!? Is that some sort of P**erm....envy? 
I do respect, however, that you've had great success with the Marik variant of the Wolvie. I prefer a different alternative, but then, I think that the AC5 is a great gun!
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: 20-Sep-2008 05:18 Post subject: CTF-*X Cataphract |
|
|
I see what you mean. No, its armour does not compare to that of the heaviest brawlers. Thanks for clearing that up, it is indeed important to take note of that!
_________________
"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
|
| Posted: 23-Sep-2008 08:18 Post subject: WVR-6* Wolverine |
|
|
I think that the main problem with the hype around 6K and 6M Wolverines is, that they look exactly like the other energy min/maxed designs in 3025 TROs (Well, they DO belong to these, although the 6K at least made some sacrifice). I can see why especially younger players who actually bothered to flip through the variants prefer 'Mechs that are obviously loaded with the best damage / t weapons and occasionally pack some nice backup, here in the form of a crit seeking SRM rack.
I think that these machines can easily stand in the same line with the WHM-6D Warhammer, BLR-1D Battlemaster and JR7-F Jenner...
_________________
The dragon NEVER sleeps!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
|
| Posted: 23-Sep-2008 08:36 Post subject: Re: CTF-*X Cataphract |
|
|
| jymset wrote: | | I see what you mean. No, its armour does not compare to that of the heaviest brawlers. Thanks for clearing that up, it is indeed important to take note of that! |
Well, the other problem is the lack of ammo, which usually limits the ranged firepower. I should stop comparing the Cataphract to the Orion or Warhammer, but it's hard not to do so. The CTF really does the best work at medium range (as you correctly pointed out before), but for ranged firepower it will do better to rely on the other elements of it's group.
I'd also like to commend the addition of the hand actuator, which increases the overall usefulness of the design. Of the other heavies only the Archer, Black Knight, Bombardier, Dragon, Ostsol, Ostroc and Thunderbolt come to mind as having hands... How many of those are actually regularly seen in Liao service?
_________________
The dragon NEVER sleeps!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
|
| Posted: 23-Sep-2008 08:45 Post subject: 3025 'mechs and their variants reviewed by categories |
|
|
I won't try to force you to write a little more about the T-Bolt, although I'd certainly like to.
I have some different thingie for you to play... a not-so-popular machine and one of the reputed oddballs of the 3025 TRO... the Vulcan.
_________________
The dragon NEVER sleeps!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
master arminas
Clan Goliath Scorpion
Star Colonel
Joined: 07-Mar-2007 16:14
Posts: 718
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 23-Sep-2008 09:03 Post subject: 3025 'mechs and their variants reviewed by categories |
|
|
Two requests: The greatest medium-weight trooper ever made--the Vindicator--and the plodding beast itself--the Stalker.
Arminas tar Valantil
Grand Master of the Ebon Rose
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 23-Sep-2008 12:17 Post subject: 3025 'mechs and their variants reviewed by categories |
|
|
No no no no... the best medium soldier is the Centurion.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| |
» |
All times are GMT-05:00 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
|
