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chihawk
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 Posted: 11-Sep-2007 16:15 Post subject: NFL: Week 2 |
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SUN, SEP 16
Buffalo at Pittsburgh 1:00 PM CBS
Houston at Carolina 1:00 PM CBS
Cincinnati at Cleveland 1:00 PM CBS
Indianapolis at Tennessee 1:00 PM CBS
Atlanta at Jacksonville 1:00 PM FOX
New Orleans at Tampa Bay 1:00 PM FOX
Green Bay at NY Giants 1:00 PM FOX
San Francisco at St. Louis 1:00 PM FOX
NY Jets at Baltimore 4:15 PM CBS
Oakland at Denver 4:15 PM CBS
Kansas City at Chicago 4:15 PM CBS
Minnesota at Detroit 4:05 PM FOX
Dallas at Miami 4:05 PM FOX
Seattle at Arizona 4:05 PM FOX
San Diego at New England 8:15 PM NBC
MON, SEP 17
Washington at Philadelphia 8:30 PM ESPN
All times EDT
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chihawk
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chihawk
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Mordel
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| Posted: 14-Sep-2007 17:57 Post subject: |
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So no 4pm FOX game here in MA?
Can someone explain to me how/why they show games and sometimes they don't?
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SaberDance
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| Posted: 14-Sep-2007 19:05 Post subject: |
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| Mordel wrote: | So no 4pm FOX game here in MA?
Can someone explain to me how/why they show games and sometimes they don't? |
Short form:
The NFL is a regulated monopoly. Part of the agreement between the NFL and the FCC/SEC/and probably a couple other agencies and boards is that the NFL is required to spread the games across the country so that all parts of the country get to watch the game and that, to encourage competition, the NFL has to distribute games across the 3 networks.
When the agreement was reached in the late 70s or early 80s, FOX wasn't a major network, so the requirements to feed games to NBC, CBS, and ABC take precedence --> which means that those networks get to bid first.
As for generally, as part of having to show games in all areas, there is a complicated formula relating to market size, media-market, proximity to the stadium, and dozens of other things that relate to what game gets shown where.
There's another complicated formula for who gets Monday Night Football, the Super Bowl, the NFL Draft, the All-Star-Game, and who know's what else.
For those who are wondering, yes, NFL Sunday Ticket is a problem (monopolistic broadcast of all games, but only in select regions), and it's a perenial topic of investigation when Congress has nothing better to do.
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chihawk
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SaberDance
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| Posted: 15-Sep-2007 12:36 Post subject: |
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A couple of places. Gregg Easterbrook has written on it (at ESPN's Page 2, and also at NFL.com, search for TMQ), it was a case study in class a couple years ago. Two years ago when I had CSPAN 2 I watched the hearings in the Senate over DirecTV NFL Sunday Ticket. Looks like some of it has changed.
The rules that I knew about are described in the Wikipedia section titled: Post NFL-AFL merger, which puts my dating-from-memory about 10 years late. The agreement would have been reached in the early 70s.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_television#Post_AFL-NFL_Merger
Though I was under the impression it was a bid process, not a rotation.
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SaberDance
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| Posted: 15-Sep-2007 12:49 Post subject: |
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Follow-up to that.
The relevant starting law is the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961 (so maybe I was 20 years off... must've been thinking of the fairness doctrine when I placed it in the 80s).
www.sportslawnews.com/archive/jargon/ljsportsbroadcasingact.htm
That's a pretty good description of what it looks like, and jives with how I'd heard it described. Particularly the Blackout Rule, which Wikipedia says relates to not broadcasting home games in the home market, but which I'd heard described as blocking out competing games in the home market.
In fact, Easterbrook has complain about having to watch horrendously bad home games because of the Blackout Rule, rather than getting to switch to a more interesting game carried by the same network.
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chihawk
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| Posted: 15-Sep-2007 13:45 Post subject: |
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Unless I totally misread the links you posted they don't really say what you said.
I searched NFL.com for "TMQ", and got no results.
I searched ESPN for "TMQ", and could only find one of Easterbrooks' columns on the subject, and that doesn't really say what that either.
sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=tmq/021029
Congress did pass a law concerning blackouts of sold out local games in the early 70's, but the NFL still sets the rules determing what games are blacked out in each television market. They have extended the time limit from 3 days to two days for a blackout to be lifted numerous times.
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SaberDance
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| Posted: 16-Sep-2007 14:00 Post subject: |
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| chihawk wrote: |
I searched NFL.com for "TMQ", and got no results.
I searched ESPN for "TMQ", and could only find one of Easterbrooks' columns on the subject, and that doesn't really say what that either.
sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=tmq/021029
Congress did pass a law concerning blackouts of sold out local games in the early 70's, but the NFL still sets the rules determing what games are blacked out in each television market. They have extended the time limit from 3 days to two days for a blackout to be lifted numerous times. |
2 points, then I'm done cause I didn't really want to spend this much time and effort on it.
1.) You're just not looking hard enough.
It's discussed here: sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/061212 Midway down, the headline is "Arlen Specter TMQ Man of the Year.
here: sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/061114 towards the top, look for the link "Anti-Consumer and Restraint of Trade"
and here: sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/061205, look for the picture of JP Morgan about half way down.
That was just a short google search.
The theme of all of them is that the 1961 (and later) anti-trust exemptions require NFL games be made available broadly.
This is a pretty good description of the Anti-Trust rules and history here: www.voluntarytrade.org/downloads/VTR6.pdf
2.) I don't know that we're in substantive disagreement. The proximate cause of of the FOX/CBS double headers is NFL Leage policies.
But the league policies are driven by the NFL's desire to maintain its broadcast exemption. My information was out of date on the exact implementation, as it changed in 93, 96, and 06, and so wouldn't be included when reading the original articles from the 70s and 80s. But the basics of Anti-Trust law requiring games be spread across the multiple networks and -well, spread wasn't quite right -not prevented from being spread across the regions still apply.
The law forbids the NFL from having single-network deals. Thus, the league instituted policies to guarentee multi-network deals. Absent those rules, though, there wouldn't be a FOX/CBS double header rule to begin with.
The formulas I mentioned before are League policies, but they are mandated by Federal Law, Courts, and Regulations.
2.b.) I was incorrect on the present tense "get the first bid" for games. NBC, CBS, and ABC got the first bids, and those contracts lasted for a long time. However, at this point, NBC has lost its contract and CBS and ABC are moving around how they use their licensing rights.
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chihawk
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| Posted: 16-Sep-2007 14:15 Post subject: |
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| SaberDance wrote: | 2 points, then I'm done cause I didn't really want to spend this much time and effort on it.
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That's good considering that none of the info you posted answers Mordel's question, nor explains the NFL television policy about why some games are shown and why some aren't. 
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