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bladewind
Free Rasalhague Republic
Major General
Joined: 02-Oct-2004 00:00
Posts: 1054
Location: Singapore
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 Posted: 06-May-2007 05:23 Post subject: 135 ton Colossus class mechs ???! |
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Guess Wizkids just had to make tripod mechs...
This is old news but I can't help and get fed up. Just a rant....
Even for 135 tons their firepower isn't all that impressive....
Poseidon packs:
2 ER PPC
1 MRM-20
1 Plasma Rifle
2 ER medium lasers
2 LRM-5
3 ER small lasers
3 SRM-2s
6 A-pods
And also carries infantry.
And a TSEMP, or whatever that means.
However, that kind of loadout can be settled by a 100 ton mech with 18.5 tons of armor and a light engine... while significantly cheaper and having sufficient DHS for twin ERPPCs.
Guess common sense went out of the window for Battletech. Unless that thing is armored as a fortress, it is still a big target, and I wager it cannot be faster than an assault...
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 06-May-2007 05:45 Post subject: |
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I think it was 2/3...
But yes, this thing is... well... not too useful?
I think it needs special space in Drop Ship and due to speed it is useless in most situations with the exception of siege and defense. Artillery food...
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-May-2007 10:36 Post subject: |
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The only use I can see is just that an artillery carrier...but even then it's logistical drawbacks kill it's usefulness and again these kinds of mechs belong in other genre of sci-fi not BT.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 06-May-2007 14:02 Post subject: |
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Arty is for tanks...
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-May-2007 14:29 Post subject: Re: 135 ton Colossus class mechs ???! |
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| bladewind wrote: | Guess Wizkids just had to make tripod mechs...
This is old news but I can't help and get fed up. Just a rant....
Even for 135 tons their firepower isn't all that impressive....
Poseidon packs:
2 ER PPC
1 MRM-20
1 Plasma Rifle
2 ER medium lasers
2 LRM-5
3 ER small lasers
3 SRM-2s
6 A-pods
And also carries infantry.
And a TSEMP, or whatever that means.
However, that kind of loadout can be settled by a 100 ton mech with 18.5 tons of armor and a light engine... while significantly cheaper and having sufficient DHS for twin ERPPCs.
Guess common sense went out of the window for Battletech. Unless that thing is armored as a fortress, it is still a big target, and I wager it cannot be faster than an assault... |
May I point out something? Please have a look at this unit: Mackie MSK-6S
| Code: | Type/Model: Mackie MSK-6S
Mass: 100 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 152 pts Standard 0 10.00
Engine: 300 Fusion 6 19.00
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 15 Single 3 5.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 2 LT, 1 RT)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA R: Sh+UA+LA 14 .00
Armor Factor: 212 pts Standard 0 13.50
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 8
Center Torso: 31 30
Center Torso (Rear): 10
L/R Side Torso: 21 20/20
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 10/10
L/R Arm: 17 24/24
L/R Leg: 21 28/28
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 PPC LA 10 3 7.00
2 Medium Lasers CT 6 2 2.00
1 Autocannon/10 RA 3 20 9 14.00
(Ammo Locations: 2 RT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 19 46 76.50
Crits & Tons Left: 32 23.50
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 8,654,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,180
Cost per BV: 7,333.9
Weapon Value: 1,269 / 1,269 (Ratio = 1.08 / 1.08)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 19; MRDmg = 12; LRDmg = 3
BattleForce2: MP: 3, Armor/Structure: 5/8
Damage PB/M/L: 4/3/1, Overheat: 1
Class: MA; Point Value: 12
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The first battlemech ever constructed. Carried a paltry 13.5tons of armor, 15 SHS, and an every impressive PPC, AC/10, and 2 MLs. Impressive for a 45t medium mech by todays standards, but a revolutionary machine then.
The Ares Class Colossal Battlemech is the first field prototype. It serves only to say that it is going to have so losses when compared state-of-art and yet technologically refined Assault Mechs.
About the only thing I dislike is the fact that it has 3 legs. Not an efficient means of locomotion. Stable, yes. Efficient, no. I say a minimum of matchings in pairs... 2,4,6,ect.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-May-2007 16:04 Post subject: |
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That depends on how you look at the Mackie...it works out better as a 50 ton mech then a 100 tonner.
Also given that the Mackie was the first mech the fluff has stated things weighed more etc...so the extra 50 tons could have been engine weight, internal structure or even the gyros and muscular myomer in use at the time...
Then again it does work better as a 50 tonner and that would have fit some of the earlier fluff where the mechs got bigger and out classed the Mackie...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-May-2007 16:06 Post subject: |
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Also in Stardate/Stardrive magazines they had a three legged mech called the Hedgehog or something like that. And I think Battletechnologies did one up as well. And in doing so they had special rules for the mech on what it could and couldn't do.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-May-2007 16:46 Post subject: |
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| Karagin wrote: | That depends on how you look at the Mackie...it works out better as a 50 ton mech then a 100 tonner.
Also given that the Mackie was the first mech the fluff has stated things weighed more etc...so the extra 50 tons could have been engine weight, internal structure or even the gyros and muscular myomer in use at the time...
Then again it does work better as a 50 tonner and that would have fit some of the earlier fluff where the mechs got bigger and out classed the Mackie... |
And that is the point i am trying to make. New technologies on this scale tend to be rather inefficient. Alot of the weight on the Ares is likely tied up in overweight technology. It will likely get more efficient as time goes.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-May-2007 17:14 Post subject: |
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| Vagabond wrote: | | Karagin wrote: | That depends on how you look at the Mackie...it works out better as a 50 ton mech then a 100 tonner.
Also given that the Mackie was the first mech the fluff has stated things weighed more etc...so the extra 50 tons could have been engine weight, internal structure or even the gyros and muscular myomer in use at the time...
Then again it does work better as a 50 tonner and that would have fit some of the earlier fluff where the mechs got bigger and out classed the Mackie... |
And that is the point i am trying to make. New technologies on this scale tend to be rather inefficient. A lot of the weight on the Ares is likely tied up in overweight technology. It will likely get more efficient as time goes. |
BUT the Mackie never got efficient as a 100 tonner, it works as a mech half as heavy, ie the 50 tonner, so in this cause the machine didn't benefit from the tech getting better.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-May-2007 18:02 Post subject: |
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| Karagin wrote: | | Vagabond wrote: | | Karagin wrote: | That depends on how you look at the Mackie...it works out better as a 50 ton mech then a 100 tonner.
Also given that the Mackie was the first mech the fluff has stated things weighed more etc...so the extra 50 tons could have been engine weight, internal structure or even the gyros and muscular myomer in use at the time...
Then again it does work better as a 50 tonner and that would have fit some of the earlier fluff where the mechs got bigger and out classed the Mackie... |
And that is the point i am trying to make. New technologies on this scale tend to be rather inefficient. A lot of the weight on the Ares is likely tied up in overweight technology. It will likely get more efficient as time goes. |
BUT the Mackie never got efficient as a 100 tonner, it works as a mech half as heavy, ie the 50 tonner, so in this cause the machine didn't benefit from the tech getting better. |
BUT.... future machines did! The Daishi exists because the Mackie existed.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-May-2007 18:35 Post subject: |
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| Vagabond wrote: | | Karagin wrote: | | Vagabond wrote: | | Karagin wrote: | That depends on how you look at the Mackie...it works out better as a 50 ton mech then a 100 tonner.
Also given that the Mackie was the first mech the fluff has stated things weighed more etc...so the extra 50 tons could have been engine weight, internal structure or even the gyros and muscular myomer in use at the time...
Then again it does work better as a 50 tonner and that would have fit some of the earlier fluff where the mechs got bigger and out classed the Mackie... |
And that is the point i am trying to make. New technologies on this scale tend to be rather inefficient. A lot of the weight on the Ares is likely tied up in overweight technology. It will likely get more efficient as time goes. |
BUT the Mackie never got efficient as a 100 tonner, it works as a mech half as heavy, ie the 50 tonner, so in this cause the machine didn't benefit from the tech getting better. |
BUT.... future machines did! The Daishi exists because the Mackie existed. |
Hopefully there won't be future three legged 101 plus ton mechs. They really aren't needed in the game.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-May-2007 20:25 Post subject: |
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| wrote: | Poseidon packs:
2 ER PPC
1 MRM-20
1 Plasma Rifle
2 ER medium lasers
2 LRM-5
3 ER small lasers
3 SRM-2s
6 A-pods
And also carries infantry.
And a TSEMP, or whatever that means.
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Ok well there are alot of crap weapons on here to start with. What the hell is a plasma rifle? And how much does it weigh? What are its stats? And does it have the same internal structure layout as 20 to 100 tons? Or does it have more internal slots? How much uinfantry does it carry? Is that a 1 ton hold or 5 tons? Or is it more? This intrigues me. I am curious to see how it works.
Also a tripod design is great for stability, but how does ti walk? Does it fold p the back leg and walk then when it fires does it deploy the leg?
I am asking because I have never seen this before. And am very curious about it.
And I agree with Vagabond. as inefficent as the Makie and this design are. They are prototypes, And will be superceded by better designs, much like the Makie was.
But looking at the weapon set up right now its pretty silly. 3 tons of apods 7 tons for the MRM (useless weapon) , 1.5 tons for the ersmalls (again a joke) And then the pair of LRM 5's. So at this point we have, 15 ish tons of wasted space not counting ammo, so probably close to 20 tons. So I am guessing with all weapons and the infantry room we are looking at close to 60 maybe 70 tons? There are a lot better weapon configurations you can do to make it a beast.
But as it sits its a very specialized piece of equipment. And not going to be deployed on a whim.
Is there a link for the design specs? I really want to see it.
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If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-May-2007 22:37 Post subject: |
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The Plasma rifle is something new out of the TechManual and it's something the IS has.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-May-2007 20:28 Post subject: |
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It shoots blood????? 
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A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-May-2007 22:21 Post subject: |
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| Sir Henry wrote: | | It shoots blood????? |
Yeah yeah yeah yeah... 
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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