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An appraisal of modern US weaponry
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Warhammer: 3025
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PostPosted: 06-Jan-2006 00:20    Post subject: An appraisal of modern US weaponry Reply to topic Reply with quote

Found an article here that I found rather informative. I've snipped the parts that I thought were most interesting below.

Quote:

1) The M-16 rifle : Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the talcum powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. [The Marine] says you feel filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine version is more popular because it's lighter and shorter, but it has jamming problems also. They like the ability to mount the various optical gunsights and weapons lights on the picattiny rails, but the weapon itself is not great in a desert environment. They all hate the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor penetration on the cinderblock structure common over there and even torso hits cant be reliably counted on to put the enemy down.
Fun fact: Random autopsies on dead insurgents shows a high level of opiate use.

2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light machine gun. Big thumbs down. Universally considered a piece of shit. Chronic jamming problems, most of which require partial disassembly. (that's fun in the middle of a firefight).

3) The M9 Beretta 9mm: Mixed bag. Good gun, performs well in desert environment; but they all hate the 9mm cartridge. The use of handguns for self-defense is actually fairly common. Same old story on the 9mm: Bad guys hit multiple times and still in the fight.

4) Mossberg 12ga. Military shotgun: Works well, used frequently for clearing houses to good effect.

5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 Nato (.308) cal. belt fed machine gun, developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that was!!). Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts 'em down. Originally developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are being dismounted and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62 round chews up the structure over there.

6) The M2 .50 cal heavy machine gun: Thumbs way, way up. "Ma deuce" is still worth her considerable weight in gold. The ultimate fight stopper, puts their dicks in the dirt every time. The most coveted weapon in-theater.

7) The ..45 pistol: Thumbs up. Still the best pistol round out there. Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands on one. With few exceptions, can reliably be expected to put 'em down with a torso hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of the pistol work) use the HK military model and supposedly love it. The old government model .45's are being re-issued en masse.

8) The M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued in bulk, mostly in a modified version to special ops guys. Modifications include lightweight Kevlar stocks and low power red dot or ACOG sights. Very reliable in the sandy environment, and they love the 7.62 round.

9) The Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way up. Spectacular range and accuracy and hits like a freight train. Used frequently to take out vehicle suicide bombers ( we actually stop a lot of them) and barricaded enemy. Definitely here to stay.

10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in 308 but some in 300 win mag. Heavily modified Remington 700's. Great performance. Snipers have been used heavily to great effect. Rumor has it that a marine sniper on his third tour in Anbar province has actually exceeded Carlos Hathcock's record for confirmed kills with OVER 100.

11) The new body armor: Thumbs up. Relatively light at approx. 6 lbs. and can reliably be expected to soak up small shrapnel and even will stop an AK-47 round. The bad Hot as shit to wear, almost unbearable in the summer heat (which averages over 120 degrees). Also, the enemy now goes for head shots when ever possible. All the bullshit about the "old" body armor making our guys vulnerable to the IED's was a non-starter. The IED explosions are enormous and body armor doesn't make any difference at all in most cases.

12) Night Vision and Infrared Equipment: Thumbs way up. Spectacular performance. Our guys see in the dark and own the night, period. Very little enemy action after evening prayers. More and more enemy being whacked at night during movement by our hunter-killer teams. We've all seen the videos.

13) Lights: Thumbs up. Most of the weapon mounted and personal lights are Surefire's, and the troops love 'em. Invaluable for night urban operations. [The Marine] carried a $34 Surefire G2 on a neck lanyard and loved it.

I cant help but notice that most of the good fighting weapons and ordnance are 50 or more years old!!!!!!!!! With all our technology, it's the WWII and Vietnam era weapons that everybody wants!!!! The infantry fighting is frequent, up close and brutal. No quarter is given or shown.

Bad guy weapons:

1) Mostly AK47's The entire country is an arsenal. Works better in the desert than the M16 and the .308 Russian round kills reliably. PKM belt fed light machine guns are also common and effective. Luckily, the enemy mostly shoots like shit. Undisciplined "spray and pray" type fire. However, they are seeing more and more precision weapons, especially sniper rifles. (Iran, again)

Fun fact: Captured enemy have apparently marveled at the marksmanship of our guys and how hard they fight. They are apparently told in Jihad school that the Americans rely solely on technology, and can be easily beaten in close quarters combat for their lack of toughness. Let's just say they know better now.

2) The RPG: Probably the infantry weapon most feared by our guys. Simple, reliable and as common as dogshit. The enemy responded to our up-armored humvees by aiming at the windshields, often at point blank range. Still killing a lot of our guys.

3) The IED: The biggest killer of all. Can be anything from old Soviet anti-armor mines to jury rigged artillery shells. A lot found in [The Marine's] area were in abandoned cars. The enemy would take 2 or 3 155mm artillery shells and wire them together. Most were detonated by cell phone, and the explosions are enormous. You're not safe in any vehicle, even an M1 tank. Driving is by far the most dangerous thing our guys do over there. Lately, they are much more sophisticated "shape charges" (Iran, again) specifically designed to penetrate armor.

Fact: Most of the ready made IED's are supplied by Iran, who is also providing terrorists (Hezbollah types) to train the insurgents in their use and tactics. That's why the attacks have been so deadly lately. Their concealment methods are ingenious, the latest being shape charges in Styrofoam containers spray painted to look like the cinderblocks that litter all Iraqi roads. We find about 40% before they detonate, and the bomb disposal guys are unsung heroes of this war.

4) Mortars and rockets: Very prevalent. The soviet era 122mm rockets (with an 18km range) are becoming more prevalent. One of [The Marine's] NCO's lost a leg to one. These weapons cause a lot of damage "inside the wire". [The Marine's] base was hit almost daily his entire time there by mortar and rocket fire, often at night to disrupt sleep patterns and cause fatigue (It did). More of a psychological weapon than anything else. The enemy mortar teams would jump out of vehicles, fire a few rounds, and then haul ass in a matter of seconds.

5) Bad guy technology: Simple yet effective. Most communication is by cell and satellite phones, and also by email on laptops. They use handheld GPS units for navigation and "Google earth" for overhead views of our positions. Their weapons are good, if not fancy, and prevalent.

Their explosives and bomb technology is TOP OF THE LINE. Night vision is rare. They are very careless with their equipment and the captured GPS units and laptops are treasure troves of Intel when captured




[ This Message was edited by: Warhammer: 3025 on 2006-01-06 00:30 ]
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Nightmare
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PostPosted: 06-Jan-2006 08:06    Post subject: RE: An appraisal of modern US weaponry Reply to topic Reply with quote

Don't trust people who think AK series assault rifles use "Russian .308".

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PostPosted: 06-Jan-2006 14:12    Post subject: RE: An appraisal of modern US weaponry Reply to topic Reply with quote

Agreed with Nightmare. AKs use the 7.62PAC round, not a .308.

Generally, I wouldn't trust the Jawareport for military information. They're more of a humor department. Try Mudville Gazette (www.mudvillegazette.com) or CastleARGGHHH (www.thedonovan.com) for military blogging.

The M16 hasn't jammed in sand since the A1 model, which is no longer in use. We learned after the first Gulf-War. Likewise, the SAW has been upgraded a number of times, and now replaced by by an actual light machine-gun (probably the M-60, though I don't recall).

Now, the guy we're talking about is a Marine. Not exactly known in the military for the money they spend on their equipment. (These guys still fly Cobras, for Pete's sake.) So, he probably did use the M16A1 model, which jams in sand. And he probably did use an earlier version of the SAW, which jams if fired for too long (common problem, actually, for all air-cooled automatic weapons).
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PostPosted: 06-Jan-2006 14:20    Post subject: RE: An appraisal of modern US weaponry Reply to topic Reply with quote

I should also add, SAW stands for Squad Automatic Rifle, not assault. Again, probably a difference in Marine lingo.

The M-14 is more popular in the USMC, where it is still used for drill and ceremonial activities. The Army considers it a target rifle, and uses it as a sniper weapon.

As for not liking the 5.56 round, I think that's universal, but the mitigating factors are: weight, quantity, and you're not supposed to use the M-16A2 out past 500yards! It's penetrating power is greater than the .45 precisely because it's so small, but with the same size powder charge. But, because it is so small, it looses power faster over distance (recall the momentum equation: mv=momentum).

Again, probably different for Marines, for whom marksmanship is more of a concern than for the army. Not to say that either group can't shoot. Ours are still the best shots in theater (I'd argue in the world, but I can't prove it).
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PostPosted: 06-Jan-2006 16:21    Post subject: RE: An appraisal of modern US weaponry Reply to topic Reply with quote

I also thought that it was the M249 SAW not the M243 although it could just be a typo. But the M249 from what ive read has been highly praised by the men that use it.

Although despite the fixing of the jamming, the M16 is still not popular. Much like the British SA80, the original problems were mostly fixed but the reputation is stuck.

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PostPosted: 06-Jan-2006 17:00    Post subject: RE: An appraisal of modern US weaponry Reply to topic Reply with quote

I don't know about the M-16's reputation. A lot of the Vietnam era criticism was vastly unfair and stemmed from draftees not taking care of their weapons correctly. (The jamming was the least unfair of their criticism). Most of the rest of them were that the weapon was a plink gun, not heavy enough, not sturdy enough, and not American enough.

Basically, it was bias against stamped-metal and plastic weapons. Now, good luck finding anyone who wants to go back to the old wood-stocked weapons. And weight complaints? There was very nearly an outrage when OICW came in with a weight roughly equal to the old M-1 Garrand.

Of course, as I've said elsewhere, we make up the weight difference with our armor, which is getting lighter, thus weapons can get heavier.

Among my friends going into or coming out of the military, they love the M-16, which is either cause or result of the love they have for the civilian counter-part AR-15. I have to say, I rather like that rifle too, though the traditionalist in me still likes to target shoot with a 30.06.
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PostPosted: 07-Jan-2006 07:09    Post subject: RE: An appraisal of modern US weaponry Reply to topic Reply with quote

We use a version of the M-16 up here, (we call it the C-7A1). I've used it for 12 odd years and I think it's great. We've done some slight modifications, and sure, you still get the odd rifle that is prone to jamming, but that is usually due to poor magazine springs, or crappy pre-firing maintenance. I've personally never had any issues firing this weapon before.

Same thing for the SAW (which we call the C-9 LMG). If you clean it properly before firing, and remember to change barrels frequently you'll have no problems.

As for 5.56mm not having stopping power, well... it's not really supposed to. It's designed to wound - which ties up more enemy resources than killing someone outright.



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