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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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 Posted: 14-Dec-2005 12:26 Post subject: omnimech configurations |
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Is it just me, or does anyone else think the idea of standard omnimech configurations is a bit silly, especially given the conditions of the clan trial system.
Seriously, why would pilots limit themselves to a preset series of variants? The trial system means that logistics are not really a problem, so the biggest benefit of standardization really does not apply in this situation. I'd much rather have the surprise advantage of having a 'mech configured uniquely and unpredictably.
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 14-Dec-2005 13:02 Post subject: RE: omnimech configurations |
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I have always wondered about this. There is really no and has never been a reason to standardize if you are a clan warrior. But then I am still trying to figure out why the clans have such systems as Tag, Narc and artillery missiles. They go against the clan practices of single combat.
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If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 14-Dec-2005 13:09 Post subject: RE: omnimech configurations |
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Having preset configurations would have meaning for logistics. Quartermaster may have problems with obtaining components for untried configuration and command will probably question hoarding parts that don't have clear use with the unit.
It also prevents pilots from making completely stupid configurations (and thus being useless when needed) and damaging their precious mechs.
Even with omni technology, that makes outfitting and repairing the mech much easier, working with mechs isn't simple. Rules look easy, but that doesn't say that any configuration you make at the moment is trouble free. Accidental short circuits, unexpected heat spikes or even worse may result form wrong connection. So fixed configuration provides you with safe and well-tried mixes of weapons that should work without problems.
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
Major
Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 1470
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 16-Dec-2005 04:52 Post subject: RE: omnimech configurations |
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Besides the technical side we have tactical needs as well!
If any Clan warrior could freely choose what ever loadout they wish no clan commander can predict the abilities of his unit in a given time!
So if he wants to bid forces down he will have problems guessing his units equipment!
So I think "normal" warriors are limited to some proven configurations and are even told by their superiors wich one to choose!
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 16-Dec-2005 09:15 Post subject: RE: omnimech configurations |
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A commander could also take advantage of this to increase his unit's tactical flexibility...who's to say the commander orders the standard configurations.
Clan warriors are the most highly trained soldiers in known space. They know how to develop viable omnimech configurations.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 16-Dec-2005 11:54 Post subject: RE: omnimech configurations |
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They know how to develop, but techs must install it, debug it and that takes some time.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Dec-2005 14:06 Post subject: RE: omnimech configurations |
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On 2005-12-16 11:54, Sleeping Dragon wrote:
They know how to develop, but techs must install it, debug it and that takes some time.
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I don't know. Given Mud's initial question as I read it, i think he may have a point. When using the Trial System in its proper context, as in between Clans and not on the scummy IS, then what is the point of a standard config. You challenge another Clan or another Warrior. You state your forces. You meet on the field and fight. Logistics was not a big issue overall among the Clans prior to their attacking the IS. You only needed enough for a skirmish or three. Never anything prolonged like IS combat. The only exception is Clan scale refusals or absorptons.
So prior to attacking the IS, why did they have standard configs?
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 2074
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Dec-2005 19:44 Post subject: RE: omnimech configurations |
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Well my omnimech designs have on average 12 configurations. The Blizzard has 20! When I design omnis I like to figure out as many possable weapon and equipment combinations as possable. A few people have critized the fact that I have so many but I look at it this way Omnis aredesigned to be flexable, so the more the merrier! 
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Dec-2005 23:43 Post subject: RE: omnimech configurations |
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Timberwolf Pryde.
Technically this mech should have never exsisted. But IIRC he got that mech in that configuration, and used it that way, the only problem was the faulty targeting system. But many consider it to be one of the better Timberwolf Variants out there. The biggest problem I have is that a mechwarrior may prefer a certin weapons set up, and many fo the preset configurations may not offer what the warrior wants, forcing them to use a set they dont prefer is asking for a warrior to use lesser abilities and hurting over all performance. Now when you start looking at say Lvl 3 mechwarrior RPG rules and character creation they have broken up gunnery to 3 types, ballistic, laser and missile, now if a warrior is proficient in laser and missile, there is NO way you are going to be putting a warrior out there with a ballistic heavy loadout. It dosent make sense.
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 17-Dec-2005 06:59 Post subject: RE: omnimech configurations |
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Quote:
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On 2005-12-16 14:06, Vagabond wrote:
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On 2005-12-16 11:54, Sleeping Dragon wrote:
They know how to develop, but techs must install it, debug it and that takes some time.
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I don't know. Given Mud's initial question as I read it, i think he may have a point. When using the Trial System in its proper context, as in between Clans and not on the scummy IS, then what is the point of a standard config. You challenge another Clan or another Warrior. You state your forces. You meet on the field and fight. Logistics was not a big issue overall among the Clans prior to their attacking the IS. You only needed enough for a skirmish or three. Never anything prolonged like IS combat. The only exception is Clan scale refusals or absorptons.
So prior to attacking the IS, why did they have standard configs?
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True, my explanation doesn't work for clan omnis. Maybe the pilots are allowed to toy with their mechs as much as their social standing and rank allows. Bloodnamed warrior would always have an advantage over freebirths of the same rank etc.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 17-Dec-2005 09:01 Post subject: RE: omnimech configurations |
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Quote:
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On 2005-12-16 14:06, Vagabond wrote:
So prior to attacking the IS, why did they have standard configs?
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It limits waste? If all commanders in a trial have a rough idea of enemy load-outs there's less need for reserves and overkill. If warriors have a reasonable chance to ID an opponent's config while they challenge each other there's fewer outright deadly mistakes.
And of course, soldiers are supposed to follow orders and their commander's plan in some fashion. If every guy in A company loads up on short-range guns I can't well use them anywhere they can't sneak up on the enemy. Thus they limit me, their commander, causing me much headache!
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 19-Dec-2005 07:52 Post subject: RE: omnimech configurations |
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I don't buy the idea that clan warriors would view making themselves less predictable on the battlefield as wasteful.
As for the coordination with command, the commanders should be the driving force behind developing configurations which work well with the unit's style of combat.
As for the assertion Sleeping Dragon made that it would take the techs time to debug the new configurations, well, that's their job. These guys live and breathe to service those 'mechs. Clan warfare is not a high-intensity activity, so there's plenty of time for debugging in most situations.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 19-Dec-2005 09:02 Post subject: RE: omnimech configurations |
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On 2005-12-19 07:52, mud wrote:
I don't buy the idea that clan warriors would view making themselves less predictable on the battlefield as wasteful. |
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Imagine clans Gunbunny and Combat Wombat fighting over something. Both send a totally unpredictable force. The fight ends up in total slaughter on one or both sides, depending on dumb luck in picking über-configs and über-counter-configs. No, I think not. Most troops should be balanced so they can deal with any reasonable situation.
It's not a part of written doctrine, but may well be one of the unwritten rules. Their duels are formal affairs, after all. Honor in defeating an opponent through somewhat fair combat instead of beating them at deployment. It's an informal agreement on balance. If you don't re-invent total war I'll not do it.
Traditional clanners dislike clans that go "innovative" with things, and that should include using strange configs in a trial.
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As for the coordination with command, the commanders should be the driving force behind developing configurations which work well with the unit's style of combat.
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But warrior Harry won't fight if he can't have 10 MPLs! And his group is demanding more DHS too, even if B Trinary really needs all those babies for the ER PPCs. Well, the warriors are dueling over it in the garden already. You'll get a casualty list, damage report and information on the mechs at your disposal tomorrow. Good hunting, Commander.
IMO the higher rank you have, the better chance of getting a custom config. It's not a basic right, you earn it through deeds. Show us you can use the basic configs first, then show the skills of a leader. Now that you know enough we can depend on you not screwing things up too badly.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 19-Dec-2005 13:50 Post subject: RE: omnimech configurations |
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On 2005-12-19 07:52, mud wrote:
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As for the assertion Sleeping Dragon made that it would take the techs time to debug the new configurations, well, that's their job. These guys live and breathe to service those 'mechs. Clan warfare is not a high-intensity activity, so there's plenty of time for debugging in most situations.
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Yup, but between battles there may not be enough time. I also referred to changing weapons mix between battles.
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On 2005-12-19 09:02, Nightmare wrote:
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As for the coordination with command, the commanders should be the driving force behind developing configurations which work well with the unit's style of combat.
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But warrior Harry won't fight if he can't have 10 MPLs! And his group is demanding more DHS too, even if B Trinary really needs all those babies for the ER PPCs. Well, the warriors are dueling over it in the garden already. You'll get a casualty list, damage report and information on the mechs at your disposal tomorrow. Good hunting, Commander.
IMO the higher rank you have, the better chance of getting a custom config. It's not a basic right, you earn it through deeds. Show us you can use the basic configs first, then show the skills of a leader. Now that you know enough we can depend on you not screwing things up too badly.
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Clans would probably really need proof of warrior's capabilities to allow him to do something with his mech. I remember few materials that mention commanders that order their warriors which configuration will they pilot (Naga fluff in old 3055 TRO), but Naga may be an exception.
I can't imagine how the commanders want to make bidding if the didn't have some kind of control over configurations of mechs they command. Actually the configurations are probably assigned during the bidding and warriors must deal with what they get.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Dec-2005 15:24 Post subject: RE: omnimech configurations |
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Quote:
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On 2005-12-19 13:50, Sleeping Dragon wrote:
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On 2005-12-19 07:52, mud wrote:
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As for the assertion Sleeping Dragon made that it would take the techs time to debug the new configurations, well, that's their job. These guys live and breathe to service those 'mechs. Clan warfare is not a high-intensity activity, so there's plenty of time for debugging in most situations.
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Yup, but between battles there may not be enough time. I also referred to changing weapons mix between battles.
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Ya, but in a standard Clan vs Clan battle, when do you have more then one battle? Not often.
As for everything else, I hardly think Clan Warriors are like your typical Munchkin. The standard configs are their to reflect the standard opinons that warriors have of what each 'Mech should do. Remember, the offical configs were by the fluff made by Clanners for Clanners to use. And with only a few exception, they are hardly munchy.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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