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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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 Posted: 02-Sep-2005 08:39 Post subject: New Orleans |
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I just want to post a notice of support and sympathy for all of the people who's homes and livelihoods have been disrupted. I think I speak for everybody here when I say that the thoughts of the country, and indeed the whole world, are with you right now.
The extent of the tragedy, both natural and human, unfolding at this very moment in the city of New Orleans, and also along other parts of the Gulf Coast, is ultimately beyond the comprehension of the human mind, but it touches the soul. It teaches us about the transitory nature of of the institutions which we modern men and women all too often assume are indestructible, and it demonstrates to us, in a singular fashion, the nature of the thin veneer of civilization which covers our animal nature.
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"The enemy's gate is down."
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2005 10:03 Post subject: RE: New Orleans |
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With the wave of floods that swept around in 2002 I can imagine what's happening. Here the water comes and leaves few days after, but dealing with city filled with water and some 2 m below the ocean surface (if the news were correct) it will take a lot of time and resources just to get the water out again. Not talking about getting everything back to "normal".
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2005 10:11 Post subject: RE: New Orleans |
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I rather doubt that New Orleans will ever be the city it was after this. The extent of the poverty there means that for many of the people being forced out, there will be no point in going back. Once FEMA cuts them a check they've got no reason to go to some other part of the country and put down roots there.
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"The enemy's gate is down."
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2005 12:44 Post subject: RE: New Orleans |
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-02 10:03, Sleeping Dragon wrote:
With the wave of floods that swept around in 2002 I can imagine what's happening. Here the water comes and leaves few days after, but dealing with city filled with water and some 2 m below the ocean surface (if the news were correct) it will take a lot of time and resources just to get the water out again. Not talking about getting everything back to "normal".
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To a degree, I personaly feels, as assinine as it may be, that they should just throw in the towel and leave the city to the sea. It will probibly take less money to relocate the people and state infrastructure else where then to continue to fight an unwinnable battle against nature, which always wins in the end. I'm sorry people have lost everything in the tragedy, but i see it as an opertunity for change that previously did not exist.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2005 14:22 Post subject: RE: New Orleans |
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To the floods here - just to say with the size of our country it was small and not combined with something like hurricane - but catastrophes of this scale are way too common these days.
There can be some irony in this, how many movies are made concerning various catastrophes of world wide scale and now something happens ... (sad thing and quite cynic, but what would it be like, if compared to floods in China, tsunami in Malaysia, droughts in ... way too common)
If there is something to say to leaving the city, I don't know much about the situation in the city, with or without crisis, but this depends on general mood of the people and resources they want to devote to this. Netherlands had several problems with flooding of the land by sea during fierce winter storms that tore through embankments in the past. They always rebuilt them and renewed their fields. But Netherlands are small and people proud of everything they took from the see. If the people have some other place to go ... only time will show, but possibilities are probably already considered and decisions made. From here there is not much to do now.
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2005 16:28 Post subject: RE: New Orleans |
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I doubt New Orleans will be destroyed by this flood. It wouldn't be politically feasable to abandon the city for one thing; it's just been there too long.
A city is more than just a place; a city is an idea. You can destroy the physical infrastructure as many times as you want, but people keep rebuilding.
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2005 16:52 Post subject: RE: New Orleans |
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We need the port. Saw some stats earlier today: 50% of our Ag exports go out through NO, and a quarter of our industrial imports come in through it.
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"Politics is the Art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing the problem, and applying the wrong solution."
-Groucho Marx
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Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2005 17:35 Post subject: RE: New Orleans |
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One gratifying picture i did see was the low-life piece of * Looters face down in the dirt at the hands of those game wardens. To take advantage of such a disaster in such a cruel and heartless way in any political sphere is outragous. In a country such as the US its beyond belief.
Over here we got reports of looters holding other victims at gun point to surrender what little they had. And other reports of actual shootings. Its disgusting.
Why oh why is it never people like that who are killed. Its like the militia groups in Indonesia, hording away the relief aid from the actual victims of the Tsunami dying of disease and injuries, the exact people they are supposed to be protecting.
I think you were right, the whole idea of Civilisation is a thin veil over our animal nature.
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Constant exposure to dangers will breed contempt for them-Seneca
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2005 19:13 Post subject: New Orleans the city |
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I can agree with that. Move everything further inland and let the delta go natural as a buffer zone. Keep a navigable channel for shipping but let the rest of it go. With the current forecast of more severe weather due to the climate warming up, it would probably make a lot more sense economically. The Texas gulf cities have just had their warning too, I wonder if they have started planning if they haven't already done so.
A personal lesson that we all can take from this is that it will take a week for the Federal Government to get moving in any major situation. We should plan appropriately in our personal plans for dealing with our "local disaster" plans. Also If you are told Mandatory Evacuation, start walking if you dont have a car so you don't end up like New Orleans.
[ This Message was edited by: Rarich on 2005-09-02 19:17 ]
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2005 19:17 Post subject: New Orleans the city |
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It is going to be a much smaller city, probably focused on transportation and oil rather than any kind of corporate HQ and such that had been there up until now.
A lot of oil companies are going to move what they can elsewhere.
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Life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease.
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2005 19:22 Post subject: Economics |
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New Orleans has always been a major port. Oil, Agriculture, and Carribean Basin goods all go thru there.
Right now we just learned how truly lucky we have been. I hope All of our port cities take a look at how vulnerable they are to disasters both obvious and theoretical. New Orleans and FEMA knew of the vulnerability to Hurricanes for years, but was there any contingency planning? Only half-hearted at best. I hope you guys in the port cities start asking hard and real questions of your government reps, rather than the usual drivel.
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Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side & a dark side, and strings also lie under it all.
Life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease.
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2005 19:31 Post subject: survival |
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That is what the survivalists are about. They know that a lot of civilization goes out the door until government catches up with events. The US Gov. takes a week or so apparently. I do not know if the Indonesian/ Indian ocean area govt.s have caught up yet.
What picks me is why the media never got news to the survivors by dropping leaflets or something. There were people dying for water, and news, why the news helos could not simply started making runs......
I am glad that things are finally moving, but a lot of smaller efforts could have lessened a lot of the lawlessness, and alienation that took place. Simply grabbing helos and assigning flights of 2 to 4 to food/ water drops would have helpped immensely. finding public parks on dry land and dropping of a "disaster package" of tents, food and water with a platoon of national guard to keep things civil would have worked way better than what is going now.
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Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side & a dark side, and strings also lie under it all.
Life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease.
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 02-Sep-2005 23:06 Post subject: RE: survival |
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From some reports I heard helos flying over the city were drawing fire...why, who the hell knows, but I don't see too many reporters flying into a hail of bullets willingly.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 03-Sep-2005 05:37 Post subject: RE: New Orleans the city |
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I agree that there is much more than just materiel side of the problem, its the matter of pride and showing to the world that there will be no white flag so soon, but this also brings new possibilities and the city may actually grow, because with old things destroyed new opportunities come. Old problems may now be solved by much more radical and previously impossible means and with rebuilding comes work, thats quite important thing, if there were social problems.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 03-Sep-2005 05:59 Post subject: RE: New Orleans the city |
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I doubt that the harbor would be moved inland the spaces required are too big, as well as the resources for moving anything from port to city, ...
No matter the catastrophe, costs are probably going to have last word in this. I can imagine building better preventive embankments or warning system, but not moving entire port with everything associated with it elsewhere. This would depend on too many factors to consider, but in the end it's just decision if it's cheaper to rebuild the port once in say 10 years (just warding off the water from places that really need to stay dry and build the rest of harbor from expendable buildings that serve their purpose but can be rebuilt from prefabricated parts in almost no time), or moving everything, building new infrastructure and shipping everything from (and to) port that isn't well placed (natural harbor sites are quite prised even now).
[ This Message was edited by: Sleeping Dragon on 2005-09-03 06:03 ]
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