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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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 Posted: 27-Jun-2005 21:50 Post subject: Kiev Class BB |
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Okay a friend of mine doesn't like the way AT2 (and battlespace before it) allows you to build warships upto 1 million tons plus so he came up with the following as a starting point for warships in what he calls a more reasonable tonnage.
Anyways I thought I would share what he sent me and see what you folks had to say on it.
AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: Kiev Class BB
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type: WarShip
Rules: Level 3, Standard design
Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 25,000 tons
K-F Drive System: (Unknown)
Length: 25 meters
Power Plant: *ion *
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: *Custom Armor*
Armament:
2 NAC/10
80 Medium Laser
4 NL55
2 AR10 Launcher
20 ER Large Laser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Kiev Class BB
Mass: 25,000 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant: *ion * 1,125.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive: *Custom K-F Drive* (Integrity = 2) 5,000.00
Jump Sail: No Sail (Fusion-Charged K-F) .00
Structural Integrity: 150 3,750.00
Total Heat Sinks: 122 Double 30.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 2,040.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 63.00
Fire Control Computers: .00
Food & Water: (40 days supply) 15.00
Hyperpulse Generator: 50.00
Armor Type: *Custom Armor* (248 total armor pts) 75.50
Capital Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Fore: 47
Fore-Left/Right: 41/41
Aft-Left/Right: 41/41
Aft: 37
Cargo:
Bay 1: Fighters (6) with 8 doors 900.00
Cargo (1) 5.50
Crew and Passengers:
7 Officers (13 minimum) 70.00
46 Crew (43 minimum) 322.00
10 Gunners (25 minimum) 70.00
12 Bay Personnel .00
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 NAC/10(10 rounds) Nose 10 10 10 -- 30 2,002.00
10 Medium Laser Nose 5(50) -- -- -- 30 10.00
1 NL55 FL/R 6 6 6 6 170 2,200.00
10 Medium Laser FL/R 5(50) -- -- -- 60 20.00
1 AR10 (10 KW, 10 WS, 10 B)FL/R * * * * 40 2,900.00
10 ER Large Laser L/RBS 8(80) 8(80) 8(80) -- 240 100.00
10 Medium Laser L/RBS 5(50) -- -- -- 30 20.00
1 NL55 AL/R 6 6 6 6 85 2,200.00
10 Medium Laser AL/R 5(50) -- -- -- 60 20.00
1 NAC/10(10 rounds) Aft 10 10 10 -- 30 2,002.00
10 Medium Laser Aft 5(50) -- -- -- 30 10.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 920 25,000.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 7,574,128,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 14,430
Cost per BV: 524,887.6
Weapon Value: 20,115 (Ratio = 1.39)
Damage Factors: SRV = 258; MRV = 152; LRV = 108; ERV = 38
Maintenance: Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 66,619
(38,539 Structure, 6,500 Life Support, 21,580 Weapons)
Support Points (SP) = 64,603 (97% of MPV)
BattleForce2: Not applicable
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 27-Jun-2005 22:51 Post subject: RE: Kiev Class BB |
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What's wrong with ships massing 1,000,000+ tons? Theoretically, starships could be made the size of planets (or larger).
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Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-Jun-2005 01:19 Post subject: RE: Kiev Class BB |
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My buddy feels that if you allow the end cap to be millions of tons, then you have no balance, even when you jack up the price of things, it comes down to this in his opinion, do you build a few million ton plus ships, or a million smaller ships that can just as easily tear apart the few million ton ships?
He also feels that the way the damage is done isn't sticking with the BT style. Granted in AT2 we are chunking around some hefty damage amounts and with BTs magic armor it does take days (or so it seems at times) to get through the armor.
He issues I think come from his play a lot of Full Thrust and Slient Death battles, where the combat is fast and the ships while large and powerful have end cap limits on size and such bassed on their type. Which AT2 really doesn't have.
Let me bug him some more and I will get a more detailed answer from him.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-Jun-2005 09:21 Post subject: RE: Kiev Class BB |
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Here is one of his responces as to what all he sees as issues, please note that this is his take on things, I do agree with some of it but not all of it.
Quote:
| I think the biggest complaint I had was the unequal mass allocations to things like structure, weapons, and armor. As I recall, it seemed like you could overload the weapons on ships, and maximizing their armor protection was necessary, but not that weight intensive to do. The mass ratios just didn't seem to pan out all that elegantly (or rationally from a simulation point of view of what starships of the future might look like). I remember jump drives being insanely massive.
I realize a number of these features are universe specific, but when you throw togother a 500,000 ton ship, you can really pack on the little stuff that can unbalance the overall design on how it all comes together.
For the kind of spaceship games that I enjoy playing, I am much more an advocate of the Starmada and Full Thrust systems. I feel they do a much better job in starship design and game mechanics. Of course, neither game feels quite battletechish. |
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-Jun-2005 09:22 Post subject: RE: Kiev Class BB |
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And when I asked him for more and ideas on how to improve things here is what he gave me:
Quote:
| One idea I had was to make the design process nearly exactly like building a mech. We did this that one evening, it had a similar record sheet as a mech, but customized for a space ship. The design process was similar, allocating tonnage for structure, armor, engines, weapons, jump drives, control systems, special systems, and cargo (aerospace fighters, mechs, troops, armor, other).
In our playtest battle, we used a destroyer and I think a couple frigates. It used a 2d6 mechanic and rolled to hit and did a fixed amount of damage just like normal Battletech. Armor and critical hit chances were handled the same as in Battletech. Ranges were comparable as in Battletech, and didn't follow something like a Capital ship ranges and Bay weapon ranges.
I liked that proto approach far better than where Battlespace / Aerotech 2 is today.
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_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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