Mordel's Bar & Grill
User Review: Sledge SDG-1A
 Pages (2): « [1] 2 »
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Mordel's Bar & Grill Forum Index » Design Submissions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)


Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856

PostPosted: 03-Apr-2005 18:47    Post subject: User Review: Sledge SDG-1A Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2005-04-01, Blackhand wrote:
Lots of potential. 26 or 24 are the heat values you can produce with a run. Yet, it can dissapaite 38. If the PPCs were ER models, and you dropped a heat sink to convert one of your mediums to pulse, and maybe 1 or 3 mediums to ER models. So you have a mid range punch more, with the ability to do more damage in a sort of middle bracket.

If you don't want ER PPCs, then cut like 5 heat sinks, strap on an LRM 5 and some more mediums, maybe an SRM rack or something?

Lots of room on this chassis to improve. So I'd consider it a work in progress.



If it's not firing the rear-facing laser, and the LRM rack, it can generate a whopping 40 points/round, if it fires everything. Which, if the pilot does things right, it should. The Sledge's job is to close, and start busting heads.

_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.

Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.


Ya Rl'yeh!
Back to top View profile Send site message
chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Master Bartender


Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8081
Location: United States
PostPosted: 03-Apr-2005 19:07    Post subject: RE: User Review: Sledge SDG-1A Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2005-04-03 18:47, Warhammer: 3025 wrote:
Quote:

On 2005-04-01, Blackhand wrote:
Lots of potential. 26 or 24 are the heat values you can produce with a run. Yet, it can dissapaite 38. If the PPCs were ER models, and you dropped a heat sink to convert one of your mediums to pulse, and maybe 1 or 3 mediums to ER models. So you have a mid range punch more, with the ability to do more damage in a sort of middle bracket.

If you don't want ER PPCs, then cut like 5 heat sinks, strap on an LRM 5 and some more mediums, maybe an SRM rack or something?

Lots of room on this chassis to improve. So I'd consider it a work in progress.



If it's not firing the rear-facing laser, and the LRM rack, it can generate a whopping 40 points/round, if it fires everything. Which, if the pilot does things right, it should. The Sledge's job is to close, and start busting heads.



2 PPCs is 20
5 MLs is 15
SRM 4 is 3

Total is 38

Add 2 for a run and 40 is correct.

Looks like Blackhand has made a second error in his reviews.

_________________
www.210sportsblog.com
Back to top View profile Send site message Send e-mail Visit website Twitter Username
Blackhand
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Chu-i


Joined: 05-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 334
Location: Canada
PostPosted: 03-Apr-2005 19:34    Post subject: RE: User Review: Sledge SDG-1A Reply to topic Reply with quote

"Looks like Blackhand has made a second error in his reviews. " Chihawk's words

Okay, first of all your right, 40 is a number on a run and alpha strike. I'm a bracket player so if say you were to add your long range bracket.

2 PPC 10*2
1 LRM 20 6

=26 + 2 for the run if you want to.

Short range bracket.

5 Medium Lasers 3*5
1 SRM 4 3
1 Rear Medium 3 (not counted)

=18 + 2 for the run if you want to.

So yeah, I did screw that one up, I should have said 26 and 18. I accidently did 4 for the SRM 4s heat the first time and didn't remember to minus out the rear facing medium.

To me especially the idea of alpha strike mechs strike me as seriously wasted. You burn tonnage on heat sinks to fire all your ranged weaponry a lot of times and have to waste 1/2 to 2/3rds your heat potential.

Sure you get to fight forever at range and never worry but most ranged units will chew you up, and keep distance because you have nothing farther than 15 hexes for long term weaponry. The LRM 20 will run out and its not exactly the best ranged weapon in the game.

I'll give an example. Pull 3 heat sinks off. Put 3 Medium Lasers on it. That means your "close" bracket does 8 medium lasers and an SRM 4 for 27 heat. So you still have 5 to spare. Its better almost always to have the 3 mediums rather than the PPC. Even at +2 to hit. As long as your fighting another slow moving target your chance to hit with at least 2/3 is better than your odds of hitting with your one PPC mathmatically. Plus, if a PPC hits it does 10 damage, the 3 Mediums can do 15 for 1 less heat if your in close.

I don't see how my review was in error. Sure I made a minor addition error on the Short range but its not like you need to gloat Chihawk.
Back to top View profile Send site message
chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Master Bartender


Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8081
Location: United States
PostPosted: 03-Apr-2005 20:03    Post subject: RE: User Review: Sledge SDG-1A Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2005-04-03 19:34, Blackhand wrote:
"Looks like Blackhand has made a second error in his reviews. " Chihawk's words

Okay, first of all your right, 40 is a number on a run and alpha strike. I'm a bracket player so if say you were to add your long range bracket.

2 PPC 10*2
1 LRM 20 6

=26 + 2 for the run if you want to.

Short range bracket.

5 Medium Lasers 3*5
1 SRM 4 3
1 Rear Medium 3 (not counted)

=18 + 2 for the run if you want to.

So yeah, I did screw that one up, I should have said 26 and 18. I accidently did 4 for the SRM 4s heat the first time and didn't remember to minus out the rear facing medium.

To me especially the idea of alpha strike mechs strike me as seriously wasted. You burn tonnage on heat sinks to fire all your ranged weaponry a lot of times and have to waste 1/2 to 2/3rds your heat potential.

Sure you get to fight forever at range and never worry but most ranged units will chew you up, and keep distance because you have nothing farther than 15 hexes for long term weaponry. The LRM 20 will run out and its not exactly the best ranged weapon in the game.

I'll give an example. Pull 3 heat sinks off. Put 3 Medium Lasers on it. That means your "close" bracket does 8 medium lasers and an SRM 4 for 27 heat. So you still have 5 to spare. Its better almost always to have the 3 mediums rather than the PPC. Even at +2 to hit. As long as your fighting another slow moving target your chance to hit with at least 2/3 is better than your odds of hitting with your one PPC mathmatically. Plus, if a PPC hits it does 10 damage, the 3 Mediums can do 15 for 1 less heat if your in close.

I don't see how my review was in error. Sure I made a minor addition error on the Short range but its not like you need to gloat Chihawk.



At 2 hexes you'll be firing 2 PPCs, the mediums, and the SRM.

At 3 hexes you'll be doing the same.

At 4 hexes you'll be doing the same.

At 5 hexes you'll be doing the same.

At 6 hexes you'll be doing the same.

Hell, at 1 hex you may be doing the same....and at 6 I'm probably firing the LRMs too.

And don't tell me about minimums on the PPC. If it's a non-ammo dependent weapon and you have a resolution YOU FIRE IT if you end up at a reasonable heat. Period.

_________________
www.210sportsblog.com
Back to top View profile Send site message Send e-mail Visit website Twitter Username
Blackhand
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Chu-i


Joined: 05-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 334
Location: Canada
PostPosted: 03-Apr-2005 20:17    Post subject: RE: User Review: Sledge SDG-1A Reply to topic Reply with quote

5 mediums, 2 PPCs, SRM 4. Total damage 45+2-8 = 47 to 52 damage on average.

Pull off some of those heat sinks, add 3 more mediums. like I suggested for additional close range damage.

8 Mediums, 1 PPC, SRM 4. Total damage

50+2-8 = 52-58 damage on average. With 1 less heat.

Not a single thing changed except for pulling 3 heat sinks you didn't really use either way, and now your damage is higher. Thats basically what I'm trying to show you though.

The lack of a minimum thing also helps a tiny bit but not much in this case.

editted for a small amount of gramatical consistancy.

[ This Message was edited by: Blackhand on 2005-04-03 20:18 ]
Back to top View profile Send site message
chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Master Bartender


Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8081
Location: United States
PostPosted: 03-Apr-2005 20:38    Post subject: RE: User Review: Sledge SDG-1A Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2005-04-03 20:17, Blackhand wrote:
5 mediums, 2 PPCs, SRM 4. Total damage 45+2-8 = 47 to 52 damage on average.

Pull off some of those heat sinks, add 3 more mediums. like I suggested for additional close range damage.

8 Mediums, 1 PPC, SRM 4. Total damage

50+2-8 = 52-58 damage on average. With 1 less heat.

Not a single thing changed except for pulling 3 heat sinks you didn't really use either way, and now your damage is higher. Thats basically what I'm trying to show you though.

The lack of a minimum thing also helps a tiny bit but not much in this case.

editted for a small amount of gramatical consistancy.



You didn't take range into account when figuring average damage.

You'll note at 10 hexes you're suggested weapons load does a lot less vs the one on the mech.

_________________
www.210sportsblog.com
Back to top View profile Send site message Send e-mail Visit website Twitter Username
Blackhand
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Chu-i


Joined: 05-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 334
Location: Canada
PostPosted: 03-Apr-2005 20:42    Post subject: RE: User Review: Sledge SDG-1A Reply to topic Reply with quote

2 PPCs, 1 LRM 20 with same amount of ammo.

I was saying just don't fire the 2nd PPC in close and that the 3 more medium lasers.

Yeah I wasn't clear on that I suppose. My modification was pulling 3 heat sinks for 3 medium lasers.

Still leaves 32 heat dissapation for the LRM 20 and 2 PPCs at range to use. Nothing changes there.
Back to top View profile Send site message
chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Master Bartender


Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8081
Location: United States
PostPosted: 03-Apr-2005 20:58    Post subject: RE: User Review: Sledge SDG-1A Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2005-04-03 20:42, Blackhand wrote:
2 PPCs, 1 LRM 20 with same amount of ammo.

I was saying just don't fire the 2nd PPC in close and that the 3 more medium lasers.

Yeah I wasn't clear on that I suppose. My modification was pulling 3 heat sinks for 3 medium lasers.

Still leaves 32 heat dissapation for the LRM 20 and 2 PPCs at range to use. Nothing changes there.



Pull ofd 3 and add 3 ML? That's a swing of 15 heat.

If you're looking for more firepower swing that rear laser around (one rear ML is useless) and maybe switch 1 DHS for a ML...switching 3, while it would lower BV, doesn't make this mech any better in its mission.


[ This Message was edited by: chihawk on 2005-04-03 20:59 ]
_________________
www.210sportsblog.com
Back to top View profile Send site message Send e-mail Visit website Twitter Username
Blackhand
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Chu-i


Joined: 05-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 334
Location: Canada
PostPosted: 03-Apr-2005 22:50    Post subject: RE: User Review: Sledge SDG-1A Reply to topic Reply with quote

The swing of 15 heat, lets you stop using a PPC in close and like I said increases your inclose damage and makes things easier to hit, as you only have one PPC firing in close now. Which means your only having one thing with a minimum.
Back to top View profile Send site message
Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Galaxy Commander


Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 2074
Location: United States
PostPosted: 03-Apr-2005 23:14    Post subject: RE: User Review: Sledge SDG-1A Reply to topic Reply with quote

And just WHERE is it written that mechs need to "bracket fire" I personally much prefer to be able to fire the whole weapon load at all times. More efficient also the cool running mech has another advantage ...If you take an engine hit or even loose a heat sink with your hot monster ...You are in DEEP DooDoo this mech has a reserve of heat capacity that can become critical in battle ...This I know

_________________
Having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have-Rush Limbaugh www.rushlimbaugh.com

Force of nature

Still crazy after all these years
Back to top View profile Send site message Send e-mail
Blackhand
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Chu-i


Joined: 05-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 334
Location: Canada
PostPosted: 03-Apr-2005 23:42    Post subject: RE: User Review: Sledge SDG-1A Reply to topic Reply with quote

I've never seen a rule that says mechs have to be able to bracket fire. Its my personal bias that a mech having an alpha strike is inefficent in a lot of ways. (exceptions War Hawk with 4 ER PPCs, Daishi H since they have no ammo and are munchy machines)

The point is that if you bracket fire not only do you get a higher damage potential it lets you have a deeper reserve of weapons if you need to really kill something quickly and want to run the heat.

If all you can do is alpha strike and gain no heat... where is your ability to kick it up a notch and actually get more damage? As things get damaged on an alpha mech you start losing potential damage. On a bracket machine you can just sub in something else, so that you have no loss of fire power. (supposing that its a weapon lost) If its a heat sink that gets blown out, then your going to be in trouble either way, but the bracket machine might be able to jiggle which weapons it fires to accomodate the new total easier than someone whose forced to take one of his larger weapons offline.

Either way, its my opinion always has been always will be.
Back to top View profile Send site message
Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
Sergeant


Joined: 04-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 976
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: 04-Apr-2005 00:48    Post subject: RE: User Review: Sledge SDG-1A Reply to topic Reply with quote

I think the whole point is, everyone has their own opinion of what's right.

AND

There's just one way to test out who's right.. fight it out.. for real

Fight! Fight! Fight!



_________________
"My job is to keep the majority of people in this country alive. That's it. If fifty-one percent eat a meal tomorrow and forty-nine percent don't, I've done my job." - The Beast (AKA The President), Transmetropolitan
Back to top View profile Send site message
Blackhand
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Chu-i


Joined: 05-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 334
Location: Canada
PostPosted: 04-Apr-2005 01:49    Post subject: RE: User Review: Sledge SDG-1A Reply to topic Reply with quote

Well tell me which version of megamek my opponent will run and how to load my idea/variant into megamek so we can duel it out best of 3 or something.

I have megamek but its an older version used for duels between warriors who play Neveron.

I'll fight for my principles . Last duel I lost by a wide margin was a trial of refusal against Mordel himself. I went down like a lamb that day as his Galahad II took down my Mad Dog SRM boat model.

Hopefully I'll manage to redeem my name on the boards.
Back to top View profile Send site message
Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
Sergeant


Joined: 04-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 976
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: 04-Apr-2005 02:20    Post subject: RE: User Review: Sledge SDG-1A Reply to topic Reply with quote

I can generate the file needed for you and to tell you where to put it. Just give me the full details of the design here... as for organising it.... Heh..


_________________
"My job is to keep the majority of people in this country alive. That's it. If fifty-one percent eat a meal tomorrow and forty-nine percent don't, I've done my job." - The Beast (AKA The President), Transmetropolitan
Back to top View profile Send site message
Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Galaxy Commander


Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 2074
Location: United States
PostPosted: 04-Apr-2005 20:12    Post subject: RE: User Review: Sledge SDG-1A Reply to topic Reply with quote

I do not have MegaMek but if chihawk is willing to host I will be more than happy to take you on in a PbEM game. I prefer to run lights.

_________________
Having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have-Rush Limbaugh www.rushlimbaugh.com

Force of nature

Still crazy after all these years
Back to top View profile Send site message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Mordel's Bar & Grill Forum Index » Design Submissions All times are GMT-05:00
 Pages (2): « [1] 2 »

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum