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AlexxKnight
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 11-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 787
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 Posted: 04-Mar-2005 05:36 Post subject: RE: Old school question time... |
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There is one constant in the BT Universe and one constant only. No one house will be able to conquer its neighbor without out either 1 of two things:
1) Getting globbered from behind by their other neighbor or
2) Having an extremely friendly neighbor on the other side.
The later is not likely to happen, at least not until after the Clans are gone. While some strides have been made, there is too much bad blood between all of the Houses for this to happen. Even if the political heads can come to some sort of political agreement, some more adventerous local commanders may take it upon themselves regardless. This has happened all too much as it is.
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Alexx Knight, Lance Sgt.
Command Company, Crimson Janissaries
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The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. . . And you
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bladewind
Free Rasalhague Republic
Major General
Joined: 02-Oct-2004 00:00
Posts: 1054
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 04-Mar-2005 11:34 Post subject: RE: Old school question time... |
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well there are a total of 5 houses, Lyran and FC are best buddies but attacking and attempting to destroy another house will inherently cause the other 2 to consolidate their positions and become even stronger.
Not exactly the Davionist would want....
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 05-Mar-2005 07:46 Post subject: RE: Old school question time... |
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Shortt version if I can get it in.
Capellan's defense got stiffer as they lost territory, Davion supply lines got over extended, and communications were not used by Davion forces.
The Capellans, having not enough military to effectively cover all their worlds, posted minor uunits, lance to company in size to most worlds and they posted major units, somtimes more than one, at key worlds. Keyworlds being those worlds of some significance or those that are within a jump of several worlds. When attacked, they send a call for help and they send a unit, or part of a unit to go to the aid of the planet under attack. Problem is sometimes the attackers are gone before aid arrives. During the 4th war the Davion's set a time table, there was no communication between the attacking forces and the throne. Everything was run by timetable. If it took you too long to take a place you moved on, letting the second wave mop up. The invasion came without warning as the fedsun's spy network was effectively feeding false military movements to Capellan spies. So when the attackers arived in system with 1-3 regiments of combined arms forces, the local lancee to company were completely overrun if not outright annihilated. When the relief forces arrived to help they were usually outnumbered as well. Then to compound the problem, the relief forces had to send aid to several planets in their hub, this cut down ion the number sent to each planet and also depleted the defending units on the key worlds and the worlds behind the front. These fell easiely too when the second wave started. But as the invasion started to get deeper the Capellans were able to more effectively defend their systems as there was less distance from the rearward worlds and the front. This allowed them to shuuffle units in and out at will and keep a R&R schedule that was quite fast.
The Davion commanders didn't want word to leak to the Confederation so they disdained the use of any comm system, relying rather on living couriers to rely command decisions. When the timetable was put into operation there was to be no comminucations between forces except in system communication and even then only with their own comm gear on the ships. Hanse distrusted Comstar to stay neutral. As the assault got farther, faster than predicted, suipply lines got tenuous. It would be easy to get cut off from supply if a stray Capellan unit arrived at one of these poorly defended locations. IIRC it did actually happen at least once, perhaps twicec before the Federated Suns decided to break the comm silence and consolidate what they had taken. Another reason to not take the whole Confederation was the same reaoson it was so easy to take planets from the Confederation. Military units spread too thin to be effective. This would have been a cripplingly weakened state for the Davion military to be in. And would have opened the doors for a few Marik generals to go glory seeking. As well as the Combine to attack a much weakened flank. We can almost ignore the Lyran thrusts into Combine space. Marginally effective is the best you can call them.
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 05-Mar-2005 07:46 Post subject: RE: Old school question time... |
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-edit- double post
[ This Message was edited by: Seraph on 2005-03-05 07:47 ]
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 05-Mar-2005 13:46 Post subject: RE: Old school question time... |
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Which goes back to my original point. The FedSuns got bogged down on a broad front war. Had they done a lightning strike deep-drive on the Cappellens, they could have simply knocked them out of the fight, left a holding force at their border, and focussed their attention on the Combine.
Had they done this, they might have been able to drive much further into the Dragon and, with so much pressure on the back end, who knows what might have happened. Maybe Theodore would have been sent to the Davion front instead of the Steiner front. Which might have brought about a Free Raslahague much earlier (since Theodore is about the only reason Melissa didn't wipe the floor with the Dracs).
Instead, the Fox tried to fight a two-front war and got bogged down, which let both the Capellans and the Dracs solidify their defenses.
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"Politics is the Art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing the problem, and applying the wrong solution."
-Groucho Marx
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Moonlapse Vertigo
Clan Goliath Scorpion
Star Captain
Joined: 02-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 207
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| Posted: 05-Mar-2005 17:44 Post subject: RE: Old school question time... |
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| But how could Davion attacked any faster than they already did? To attack so many worlds at once is the extent of what planning and jumpship usage. Remember that most of the succsession wars were a stalemate like Vampire said.
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Karl Hendricks
ComStar
Corporal
Joined: 15-Feb-2005 00:00
Posts: 79
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| Posted: 05-Mar-2005 19:51 Post subject: RE: Old school question time... |
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Personally, i think they should have completly and totally annilhated them.The Inner sphere would be better without then.
(Sorry for my bluntness, all you Capellans out there  )
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 05-Mar-2005 23:24 Post subject: RE: Old school question time... |
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Quote:
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On 2005-03-05 13:46, SaberDance wrote:
Which goes back to my original point. The FedSuns got bogged down on a broad front war. Had they done a lightning strike deep-drive on the Cappellens, they could have simply knocked them out of the fight, left a holding force at their border, and focussed their attention on the Combine.
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Even better if Hanse managed to get the FWL interested in doing a Poland on the Capellans. That would keep his back free for a full assault on the snakes.
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 06-Mar-2005 18:38 Post subject: RE: Old school question time... |
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Rather than attack across a broad swath of worlds, you punch a hole strait to the capital. You rely on knocking out the command and control center before it can relay orders to the other worlds.
He would have needed to mass more troops to hit a series of worlds in succession rather than to hit many worlds at once.
I know that Jumpship technology makes this difficult, but the Wolf's dragoons did it at least once, and it almost worked. Imagine what a full successor state could have pulled off.
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"Politics is the Art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, misdiagnosing the problem, and applying the wrong solution."
-Groucho Marx
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Mar-2005 19:13 Post subject: RE: Old school question time... |
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Quote:
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On 2005-03-06 18:38, SaberDance wrote:
Rather than attack across a broad swath of worlds, you punch a hole strait to the capital. You rely on knocking out the command and control center before it can relay orders to the other worlds.
He would have needed to mass more troops to hit a series of worlds in succession rather than to hit many worlds at once.
I know that Jumpship technology makes this difficult, but the Wolf's dragoons did it at least once, and it almost worked. Imagine what a full successor state could have pulled off.
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i remember it being said once in a BT sourcebook [battlespace i think] that for every world on the battletech map there are hundreds of others which are not represented because they are not populated. i remember it saying that a jumpship could feasibly move hundreds of light years [kinda like opperation serpant] without ever being detected. just something i thought i would mention.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 07-Mar-2005 00:04 Post subject: RE: Old school question time... |
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Quote:
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On 2005-03-06 19:13, Vagabond wrote:
i remember it being said once in a BT sourcebook [battlespace i think] that for every world on the battletech map there are hundreds of others which are not represented because they are not populated. i remember it saying that a jumpship could feasibly move hundreds of light years [kinda like opperation serpant] without ever being detected. just something i thought i would mention.
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IIRC sane people avoid those unpopulated systems even if it means fighting to the death in enemy space. Jumpships are not the most reliable piece of tech, for example the solar sail is often prone to get snarled while deploying it. Sometimes something breaks and you really need rare spare parts or assistance. Getting stuck in an empty system would suck big time, since there's no way of calling for help. 
Moving safely through these systems would require a large task force with a portion of docking collars left empty, thus lessening the amount of troops you can bring along. No sweat if you've got a big enough fleet, but Hanse had to cripple commerce in the entire realm by commandeering so many merchants for the 4th SW.
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Mar-2005 18:40 Post subject: RE: Old school question time... |
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I thought that 3028 was doable with the Davion side of the Fedcom doing spoiling attacks on the kurita border to hold units from reinforcing the Steiner front, and preventing any attacks of opportunity on the Draconis March. That side of things worked well.
With the Steiners side occupying the bulk of the Kurita units in the 'Tamar March' the Davion units would be able to do serious damage to the Capellans. They did, maybe more than I would normally expect, really shaking things up. I would agree on the worlds closest to Earth, a large part of the Tiknov area. That would take away the one facility capable of building assault mechs in quantity, removing a lot of deep offensive power from Liao. With a whole Commnality gone, a part of the sarna area as well, it was a bit excessive.
The part I really have a problem with is the 3039 mess. I would have expected an effort to finish off Liao once and for all, it was on the ropes and looking weak enough for the Majestry to take a shot at it! Instead Hanse went after Kurita, which was hurt but not nearly that bad. I would have gone for the KO on Liao, given the Allard-Liaos the new Liao March and concentrated on the pacification and redevelopment of the area.
That would then be a major focus for a couple of decades allowing people to play out things for a couple of years before introducing the clans. Do holding action against Kurita to hang on to the tamar worlds regained during the 4th sucession war. The Draconis March could remain fairly quiet, according to the indications given by Takashi/Theodore. Marik would definately become more than a back water with contact on 2 borders with the Fed-Com. Majestry would gain some of the former Liao Periphery worlds and become more Tauran in size. That would give some play in the periphery as well.
There are serious hooks all thru the old house scourcebooks for major house plot twists for a long while before the 'Ubernaturale' Clans showed up. I would have worked those, and delayed with the clans until 3100 or later. The Skye and Tiknov areas could be a nice little plot if they decided to join forces. The pacification of the Thugee in former Liao space would have been a good Mechwarrior scenario. The FRR could have been developed by the fans from hooks left dangling from the Kurita-Comstar deal.
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Mar-2005 18:54 Post subject: RE: Old school question time... |
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Ther is a lot of fluff about non-royal Liaos. "the prolific Liao Bloodline' and such. There is One with Mc Carrons Cavalry, and several 'duke' equivalents floating around. Without a royal Liao, the people would probably unite behind one of the 4 or 5 most powerful. I would vote for the MAC backed one, I think the Death Commandos and Warrior Houses would swing that way too, knowing the need for a quick solution to hold of Davion and Marik.
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Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side & a dark side, and strings also lie under it all.
Life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease.
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Khayman
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Corporal
Joined: 14-Nov-2004 00:00
Posts: 91
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| Posted: 16-Mar-2005 05:07 Post subject: RE: Old school question time... |
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This is an impossible but fun question to answer. Considering all the possibilities, politics, and players involved. I'd like to just point out a few other variables to consider. The concentration of military power displayed by Steiner and Davion provided easy pickings for bandits, pirates, and periphery worlds to raid. If the conquest was successful, then this would have continued greatly because of an over extended force. Skye might have succeeded or at least attempted to because of this. Candace Lao wouldn't have sat still if CapCon was going to be gone, Comstar surely didn't. Many Leagues within Marik near the Capellen border would have most likely attacked siting this as an advantage. In battletech, their will never be less then 5 houses but if Lao was overtaken, Kurita and Marik would have grown much stronger as well as the pirates and periphery most likely. Because of the economic trouble this war has caused (think ColdWar and Soviets) they would have a lot of problems. In another post, someone stated how many mercs have been hired by Davions and Steiners and if the economy drops, how can they afford them? The price of mercs would probably lessen a bit while even more might go rogue. So many possibilities but in the end things will most likely balance out. The only way the formula will drastically change is if wizkids does another stupid thing, or if another group takes the battletech universe over and decides to do something with it. Believing what they do to be drastic yet plausible and good, when it is definitely not.
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