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Alexander
Heavy Horse Merc Brigade
Commanding Officer
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 828
Location: Canada
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 Posted: 11-Apr-2004 01:02 Post subject: Tank Guns |
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So, I was wondering if there was any armament out there in the B-Tech universe that roughly equated to the guns in todays MBTs. I'm talking about a 105mm smoothbore cannon capable of killing lots of things with relatively few shots.
I was looking at the Max-Cheese rules at Artillery Cannons, but, I'm unsure of their usefulness for my project.
I would like to see some of your ideas on this matter... and a few rounds on me for those of you with ideas! 
Alexander (Tanker by choice, good-looking by genetics!)
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War is God's way of teaching geography.
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Commanding Officer, North West Armoured Cavalry
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Apr-2004 05:36 Post subject: RE: Tank Guns |
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other then ac/10's with AP Ammo or Guass Rifles no.
but this is what i cooked up.
88mm AT Cannon: heat 4: damage 7: min 5: range 7/14/21: mass 10: crits 4: ammo 10: Ultra: cost 400,000: ammo cost 18,000: bv 83: ammo bv 10
107mm AT Cannon: heat 6: damage 11: min 4: range 7/14/21: mass 14: crits 8: ammo 5: cost 500,000: ammo cost 18,000: bv 83: ammo bv 10
120mm AT Cannon: heat 14: damage 25: min 4: range 7/14/21: mass 18: crits 10: ammo 2: cost 600,000: ammo cost 18,000: bv 379: ammo bv 47
all can be used with TCs and all suffer a +1 to-hit as they use AP Rounds that cause a possible critical with a -2 penelty on the critical chance roll.
I cooked these up and shoulda been to bed 2 hours ago. lol. i'll tweak and test them if i can.
[ This Message was edited by: Vagabond on 2004-04-11 05:41 ]
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js
Federated Suns
Sergeant-Major
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 125
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| Posted: 12-Apr-2004 04:36 Post subject: RE: Tank Guns |
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| The difference is not so much in weapons, as in armor. The armor used in the BT universe is ablative - little pieces get knocked off and it gets thinner and weaker. Today's armor is more like all or nothing. Either a hit penetrates or it doesn't do any damage at all (this is not quite true, but close enough).
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Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 12-Apr-2004 08:32 Post subject: RE: Tank Guns |
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Well some modern tanks like the M1A2 and the Challenger are beginning to use Reactive armour which is probobly the first step in the direction of Mech style armour.
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Constant exposure to dangers will breed contempt for them-Seneca
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Alexander
Heavy Horse Merc Brigade
Commanding Officer
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 828
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 12-Apr-2004 21:12 Post subject: RE: Tank Guns |
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I'm not so much interested in the armour as the gun. I understand the problems with FASA-tech armour, and have learned to live with that. What I'm curious about is the lack of the simplest weapon system around that they've failed to use.
All a tank gun is, really, is a big tube, with a firing pin at the end. It really can't get any simpler than that. I have trouble beleiving sometimes that they didn't include that in their list of weapons, prefering to go with Gauss Rifles, PPCs, A/Cs, lasers, and craptacular missile systems instead... But, then I think about the writers who invented much of the universe (Stack-cheese), and how they went uber-sci-fi instead of realistic (don't even get me started on range of weapons issues!).
Alexander (Still looking for a simple Tank Gun!) 
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War is God's way of teaching geography.
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Commanding Officer, North West Armoured Cavalry
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 12-Apr-2004 21:17 Post subject: RE: Tank Guns |
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If you have the 3026 TRO look at the Scorpion tank. It has an AC/5 and a machine gun. It looks like a tank from nowadays. The AC/5 on that tank I see as being a tank gun in that it fires one shell that does five damage instead of a burst of smaller shells doing five damage cumulative. If you look at the AC's of the vehicles (and even some mechs), you'll notice that the pics show them as being either one shot or burst fire or either. Look at the Hunchback. With a barrel that large I see that as being a one shell firing gun. But it is all up to the perceptions and concepts of the person viewing the pic.
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If ignorance is bliss, then why are you so miserable?
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 12-Apr-2004 23:03 Post subject: RE: Tank Guns |
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On 2004-04-12 21:12, Alexander wrote:
I'm not so much interested in the armour as the gun. I understand the problems with FASA-tech armour, and have learned to live with that. What I'm curious about is the lack of the simplest weapon system around that they've failed to use. |
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Why would they use it? They already have AC's, which are supposed to be the same thing except rapid fire.
Quote:
| I have trouble beleiving sometimes that they didn't include that in their list of weapons, prefering to go with Gauss Rifles, PPCs, A/Cs, lasers, and craptacular missile systems instead... But, then I think about the writers who invented much of the universe (Stack-cheese), and how they went uber-sci-fi instead of realistic (don't even get me started on range of weapons issues!). |
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I agree completely. But making a set of balanced, realistic rules is much more difficult than throwing up quick fixes with bad explanations.
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Gangrene
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 13-Apr-2004 00:07 Post subject: RE: Tank Guns |
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The Po, Scorpoin, and Vedette pretty much have the modern tank class covered.
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Apr-2004 06:08 Post subject: RE: Tank Guns |
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I thought that the word Auto in Autocannon meant that it was like a 20mm cannon on the A-10. Then the Rotary cannon came out and shot my idea full of holes... 
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Havoc~Ronin
Federated Suns
Major
Joined: 13-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 427
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| Posted: 13-Apr-2004 09:10 Post subject: RE: Tank Guns |
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The Patton and Rommel are probably the most tank-like (in today's standards) vehicles in BT. I just finished reading one the BT novels where the writer actually indicated the size of the ammo being used. He actually wrote that 50mm sheels were being loaded into a mech carrying an A/C 5. Using this vein of thought, a 105 would resemble the A/C 10.
However, what about the 120mm or the 155mm? These are questions to ponder upon... 
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 13-Apr-2004 10:17 Post subject: RE: Tank Guns |
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The Rommel and Patton are fusion-powered though. Nobody except the Lyrans are able to afford to keep fusion vehicles in the field.
As for Sir Henry's observation about autocannons, I think the original ACs do fire in bursts...the Ultra and RAC classes just cheese it up a bit.
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1657
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Apr-2004 10:51 Post subject: RE: Tank Guns |
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The fluff the the ACs alwasy said something about bursts, but I always ignored that and just thought of them as traditional cannons. Easier to get your mind around especially when the Ultras and RAC came out.
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Havoc~Ronin
Federated Suns
Major
Joined: 13-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 427
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| Posted: 13-Apr-2004 13:23 Post subject: RE: Tank Guns |
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I must amend my comments regarding the Rommel and Patton. I should have said that they had the most similarities in appearance and weapons layout ( 1 main and a light vehicle/infantry suppressing support weapon). I did not clarify my statement to exclude the power plant. (My bad!!)
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"Ours is not to question why, ours is just to do...."
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-Apr-2004 14:42 Post subject: RE: Tank Guns |
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Quote:
| 88mm AT Cannon: heat 4: damage 7: min 5: range 7/14/21: mass 10: crits 4: ammo 10: Ultra: cost 400,000: ammo cost 18,000: bv 83: ammo bv 10
107mm AT Cannon: heat 6: damage 11: min 4: range 7/14/21: mass 14: crits 8: ammo 5: cost 500,000: ammo cost 18,000: bv 83: ammo bv 10
120mm AT Cannon: heat 14: damage 25: min 4: range 7/14/21: mass 18: crits 10: ammo 2: cost 600,000: ammo cost 18,000: bv 379: ammo bv 47 |
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I have always viewed thoes sizes as the current AC 5, 10 and 20. I just dont buy the
stream of shells version they have in the novels. I actually see the AC's as large bore weapons that fire the shell and then reload like a standard rifle. If they are firing a stream as the novels state you should be rolling for the hits on the LRM table.
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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