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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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 Posted: 17-Mar-2004 00:24 Post subject: Gangrene's Following-Fire rules |
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Taking a look at the rules Raven posted and using my own memory, I am pretty sure I am not ripping off AWAD. So here is my version of a following-fire rules set. Like AWAD's rules they make it more difficult to concentrate your shots the more your shots hit the target, but they also allow for adjustment and target tracking. Enjoy.
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This rules set is meant for any direct fire weapon that has a variable rate. Its kinda useful for the UAC's, but it really benefits the RAC's.
Following-Fire Procedure
1) Calculate to-hit normally
2) Roll for attack
3) Did it hit? Yes, go to step 4. No, go to step 6.
4) Does the weapon fire again? Yes, go to step 5. No, go to step 8.
5) Modify previous to-hit roll by +1, go to step 2.
6) Does the weapon fire again? Yes, go to step 7. No, go to step 8.
7) Modify previous to-hit roll by -1, go to step 2.
8) end
Its really easy to pick up once you do it a few times. I suggest putting some limits on this, like a max of +3 and a min of -4.
I like this type of feedback procedure because it increases the tactical options within the game and promotes aggressive behavior, which Battletech needs IMO. I think rate of fire would be a useful balancing tool for weapons.
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Gangrene
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Mar-2004 08:49 Post subject: RE: Gangrene's Following-Fire rules |
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That seems kinda backwards to me...
Why would it get harder to hit after each successful hit?
I would think that its easier to keep your shots tracked onto a target if you have already hit them that round, not harder.\
And yes that takes into account the weapon recoil.
When playing at home, I just make a standard to-hit for each shot the weapon fires. I've always hated the missile charts for that.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 917
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 17-Mar-2004 13:40 Post subject: RE: Gangrene's Following-Fire rules |
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I don't really get what's the point of these rules. If I understand correctly, it comes from the assumption that an autocannon fires a single shot each time, and these rules try to represent multiple shots with cumulative recoil of each shot affecting accuracy
Well,
1) I disagree with the single shot idea, as the canon concept is that an autocannon fires a burst of shelss in each "shot"
2) it makes autocannons too powerful, you are multiplying greatly the effect of the weapon by increasing chances to hit and damage. Multiple weapon hits? I'd give my little finger to fire a weapon more than once a turn.
Do as you like, but I think it's a too drastic alteration and too unbalancing
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 17-Mar-2004 16:12 Post subject: RE: Gangrene's Following-Fire rules |
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The autocannons come in both types. Those that fire one round per shot and those that fire a burst per shot. Only real diiference would be the barrel size and shell size. An AC/5 that shoots one shell per shot has a larger bore than an AC/5 that shoots a burst.
Like the difference between the 115mm main gun of the abrams tank used by the USA. and the vulcan minigun used by the A-10 Warthog. Both can take out a tank but the 115mm does it in one shot while the vulcan does it in 5-50 shots depending on sustained fire and accuracy. Both are effective.
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Mar-2004 16:39 Post subject: RE: Gangrene's Following-Fire rules |
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Also Vampire, when an Ultra AC is firing in Ultra mode it IS firing multiple times in a single round. For burst style ACs it simply means that it fire 2 bursts. Either way, you are still shooting it twice, and using the missile hits table to determine if both hits just dont make sense. Sure you only pull the trigger once, but the targeting system tells the gun to fire double, and it corrects the aim between shots also, so if the first misses, then in realistic theory the second could still hit since the computer is correcting aim even as the weapon is firing. Also pilots can manualy "walk" an AC onto a target too. But hey, this is another one of those personal opinion and interpretation things ya know. I'll use my home rule, Gangrene will use his, and you'll continue to use the normal rule. We all like it that way, so what difference does it make?
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Mar-2004 20:36 Post subject: RE: Gangrene's Following-Fire rules |
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Quote:
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On 2004-03-17 13:40, Vampire wrote:
I don't really get what's the point of these rules. If I understand correctly, it comes from the assumption that an autocannon fires a single shot each time, and these rules try to represent multiple shots with cumulative recoil of each shot affecting accuracy
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No. These rules try to implement the idea that a fast firing weapon can have its firing corrected as the pilot sees that the previous shots are missing, yet it is difficult to keep a rapid firing weapon targeted on the same item for any length of time.
These rules assume AC's fire multiple shots, so I see no discrepancy there.
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2004-03-17 20:40 ]
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Gangrene
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Mar-2004 20:38 Post subject: RE: Gangrene's Following-Fire rules |
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See my response to Vampire.
In my observations, it seems to me that a cyclic phenomenon of error accumulation and then correction is natural for any rapid firing weapon. Unless you consider the mech a platform such that recoil and other factors are basically neglegible. I don't really want to go that far.
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2004-03-17 20:43 ]
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Gangrene
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Mar-2004 20:47 Post subject: RE: Gangrene's Following-Fire rules |
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Quote:
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On 2004-03-17 20:36, Gangrene wrote:
Quote:
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On 2004-03-17 13:40, Vampire wrote:
I don't really get what's the point of these rules. If I understand correctly, it comes from the assumption that an autocannon fires a single shot each time, and these rules try to represent multiple shots with cumulative recoil of each shot affecting accuracy
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No. These rules try to implement the idea that a fast firing weapon can have its firing corrected as the pilot sees that the previous shots are missing, yet it is difficult to keep a rapid firing weapon targeted on the same item for any length of time.
These rules assume AC's fire multiple shots, so I see no discrepancy there.
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Ya have a point there about the accuracy. Also, if you read a lot of the novels like I do, the firing of ACs is described quite well many times. Each "Shot" which is 1 from a standard AC or 2 from an Ultra AC in ultra mode is a cassest of ammunition. In other words its like the 5" guns on WW II Naval ships, which had a small clip or casset of ammunition fed into it, I think they were 5 rounds in a single casset, but not sure. Anyways, in b-tech firing off the whole casset constitutes a single "Shot". So all an ultra AC is is an AC capable of firing 2 cassets in the same amount of time as a standard AC fires one, but has a danger to its mechanism when firing this fast. Now a rotary AC is a bit different. In this case its closer to a gatling gun, but instead of feeding a single round into each barrel as it passes opposite the active firing barrel on the opposite side, it feeds in a casset of ammunition. So every time each barrel comes around it fires a full casset.
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Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2104
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| Posted: 17-Mar-2004 20:53 Post subject: RE: Gangrene's Following-Fire rules |
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>> In other words its like the 5" guns on WW II Naval ships, which had a small clip or casset of ammunition fed into it, I think they were 5 rounds in a single casset, but not sure>>
Um...you mean the 40mm Bofors cannons...5 inchers fire a 127mm or so round...5 of those shells would be more than almost anyone could lift at once by themselves...
Ruger
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 17-Mar-2004 22:43 Post subject: RE: Gangrene's Following-Fire rules |
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This is very radical, and I think would add too little value to the game for the amount of time all this extra dice rolling would take. You might as well try and track every machine gun bullet.
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Mar-2004 23:11 Post subject: RE: Gangrene's Following-Fire rules |
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The amount of work definitely depends on how you quantize the volume of fire, so I can see where you're coming from. This set of rules could get unwieldy for a large group, especially if people aren't paying close attention. But for small unit action, like star vs star, I think this set would work out well.
This rule is really meant for dueling, or when players only have a single mech.
While we're on the topic of mg's, weren't you complaining about how weak they are? If you adjust the stats such that they do 1 point of damage but have a rate of fire of 4 bursts per turn, and then apply this rule, do you think that would make mg's more appetizing?
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2004-03-17 23:18 ]
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
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| Posted: 18-Mar-2004 21:10 Post subject: RE: Gangrene's Following-Fire rules |
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I see your point of making dueling rules...this could be interesting in that application. I like to run large-scale matches though, with lots of infantry and vehicle support.
As for the M.G.s, it's their lack of range i find most troubling. In most battles, they never even come into play.
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