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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 2074
Location: United States
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 Posted: 16-Sep-2003 03:17 Post subject: O.K. Vagabond this ones just for you |
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Seeing as you have had a problem with my designs being too high tech here is a lower tech design I came up with for a perephery realm created by Doc over at HMP lets see if this is more to your liking Vagabond.
BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Panzer Jaeger PJ-1
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3025
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 3, Standard design
Mass: 50 tons
Chassis: Standard
Power Plant: 150 I.C.E.
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
2 LRM 5s
2 SRM 2s
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
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Type/Model: Panzer Jaeger PJ-1
Mass: 50 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 83 pts Standard 0 5.00
Engine: 150 I.C.E. 6 11.00
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 10 10.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 HD, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Gyro: 4 2.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 .00
Armor Factor: 160 pts Standard 0 10.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 16 22
Center Torso (Rear): 7
L/R Side Torso: 12 17/17
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 6/6
L/R Arm: 8 15/15
L/R Leg: 12 23/23
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
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1 LRM 5 RA 2 48 3 4.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LA, 1 RA)
1 SRM 2 RA 2 50 2 2.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 CT)
1 SRM 2 LA 2 1 1.00
1 LRM 5 LA 2 1 2.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 8 48 50.00
Crits & Tons Left: 30 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 2,310,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 668
Cost per BV: 3,458.08
Weapon Value: 290 / 290 (Ratio = .43 / .43)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 6; MRDmg = 5; LRDmg = 3
BattleForce2: MP: 3, Armor/Structure: 4/4
Damage PB/M/L: 2/1/1, Overheat: 0
Class: MM; Point Value: 7
Specials: if
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Having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have-Rush Limbaugh www.rushlimbaugh.com
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5741
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Sep-2003 16:30 Post subject: RE: O.K. Vagabond this ones just for you |
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ok, i like yopur idea mo. i've always favored the idea of ICE mechs for poorer nations were constructing fusion engines is costly and limited.
now here are my suggestions. when imploying ICE engines you must MUST work the heat scale.
drop 2 to 4 heat sinks. this gives you 2 to 4 tons to tamper around with. i'd suggest using that weight to add 2 ML's. unlike vehicles you don't get a heat advantage for using Ballistical and Missiles, plus to my knowledge you don't need to add power converters but if i'm wrong trade out a heat sink or armor for them.
now 3/5's darn slow for a medium, i always try to get 4/6 on my 50t ICE's. usually 1 under its weight class norm, like most assults are 3/5, most heavies 4/6, mediums 5/8, lights 6/9. so i when building a medium ICE's i use heavies normal move rates. but then untill i get home i can't see what would be need for that.
now then, i'd combine the srm's into an SRM 4 plus ammo. i'd combine the lrm's into an LRM 10 plus 1t ammo. This gives you if i'm right:
2 ML
1 LRM 10 w 12 shots
1 SRM 4 w 25 shots.
6 heat sinks.
10t armor.
you'll have to tap dance your heat scale but you'd have a slight fighting chance in numbers.
with ICE Mechs i find its always worth the builders trouble to import DHS. it would give this design 3 to 5 more tons to play with.
last note, CASE. if you can afford loosing some armor, CASE. not to prevent the lose of the engine, no its to preserve as much scrap as possioble which i'm sureyou can appriciate Mo.
see, this this mech design, any tech having done the 6 month vocational course in ICE maintence and repair can repair this engine. a big plus for periphery nations where this will be a Anti-Pirate/Raider unit.
Back draws, short opperational distances.
BTW, most don't realize this but the reason an ICE engine is twice that of fusion is not because of the engine itself. i'd estimate each ICE engine itself is as large as a fusion engine. the second half of the weight is the fuel tank. allowing the units to go places, before needing to refuel.
i like your idea, thou your style and exicution need polishing.
"If you were dedicated in your practices half as much as you piloting you'd rivel master yoda as a swordsmen." [[ yes i know i butchered it]]  
note: with that name, it should be a quad.
[ This Message was edited by: Vagabond on 2003-09-16 16:33 ]
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 2074
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Sep-2003 19:13 Post subject: RE: O.K. Vagabond this ones just for you |
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O.K. first the realm for which I created this mech (not my world but one created by Doc over at HMP) does not have energy weapons case ferro-fiborous armour fusion engines or advanced electronics. the mechs he built and I emulated are based on a German game and the designs represent that games feel the Kreigs mount their weapons on side mounted pods( i.e. arms) which is why I did it that way my origonal design had only one ton of LRM ammo I added the second ton as a last minute thought last ni ght as I thought that the amount of ammo for both launchers should be similar I am a firm believer in having enough heatsinks to cover everything additionaly with none being in the engine I felt a little redundancy was warrented to take in account battle damage.
One of the reasons I chose to post this one here was to make a point there are a lot of people who like to create their own perephery realms the tech level are going to vary widely and as the existance of the clans illistrate being away from the IS does not nessariluy mean low tech some realms are going to develope differantly from others avalable resorces contacts or lack of with others philosophy and so forth will have an invluence I posted this design origonaly because I wanted to prove that I could design to his world other than the heat sinks (he thought I was overly generous too ) he liked the design ( I did make minor error in fluff attributing thewrong machine to thewrong factions) one thing I thing I would like to see you do when grading designs is take into a little more account the realm the machine is designed for especialy when the information is avalable ,it could help you to make more appropreate critiques a blanket rejection of a design because it does not fit your particular game world IMHO is rude the designs that inspired this one I would not be caught dead using in my games but when I critiqued his I graded them by HIS worlds standards rather than mine the challenge is to be able to build to various realms situations. For example while the OLA has lot of advanced armour engine and internal structure materials they do not have LBX or rotory ACs the only missile munitions are standard HE or infernos and while XL engines are fairly common there are no light fusions. At first mechs were limited to 15 tons because that was the biggest that the converted repair stations could make parts from scratch for necessetating the use of advanced materials to compensate the isolation lead to the belief that larger mechs were not needed The designs that I posted reflect that philosiphy. Other people will create their realms to reflect differant outlooks to dismiss them as unworthy because they do not fit your veiw is rude .I am not tryng to inflame by the way I just want you to understand that differant people have differant ideas and sometimes you make comments concerning the rules that they chose to use that aresomewhat condecending you have good insite into genaral design ideas but your limitatinions on rule sets is unfair level 3 does not=bad and it is unfair to down a design soley on that basis the rule set used should not be a reason to reject a design i,it should be graded as to how it fits within that rule set.
I just reviewed this,damn this is a long rant I guess I have some strong feelings here.
*puts away soap box*
That statement you made a few days back that you would not critique my designs becaus I used book level 3 has been bothering me for a while I guess I had to let it out.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5741
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Sep-2003 21:38 Post subject: RE: O.K. Vagabond this ones just for you |
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Quote:
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O.K. first the realm for which I created this mech (not my world but one created by Doc over at HMP) does not have energy weapons case ferro-fiborous armour fusion engines or advanced electronics.
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well you didn't say that.
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One of the reasons I chose to post this one here was to make a point there are a lot of people who like to create their own perephery realms the tech level are going to vary widely and as the existance of the clans illistrate being away from the IS does not nessariluy mean low tech some realms are going to develope differantly from others avalable resorces contacts or lack of with others philosophy and so forth will have an invluence I posted this design origonaly because I wanted to prove that I could design to his world.
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i have my own peripery like nation to. i consider all of these lvl3.
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one thing I thing I would like to see you do when grading designs is take into a little more account the realm the machine is designed for especialy when the information is avalable ,it could help you to make more appropreate critiques a blanket rejection of a design because it does not fit your particular game world IMHO is rude...
...but your limitatinions on rule sets is unfair level 3 does not=bad and it is unfair to down a design soley on that basis the rule set used should not be a reason to reject a design i,it should be graded as to how it fits within that rule set.
That statement you made a few days back that you would not critique my designs becaus I used book level 3 has been bothering me for a while I guess I had to let it out.
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the reason i don't op lvl3 designs is simple. my opinion means dit. when its your world, when its your dream, and when its your trying something out there little i can say about the design to improve it.
see my problem mo was that you posted designs that i assumed where ment to fit WITHIN the cannon universe. occasionly people design lvl3 units intended to fit within the universe but as proto-types and experimentals. i do that all the time.
in order to judge a design i need a standard. that standard is the CANNON UNIVERSE and its designs. what is exeptable within those limits. i dislike grading outside those limits because then the limits are relative.
nobody has the right to tell another [nowingly] that this or that design dosen't fit or work in another persons setting.
if i wanted ba to be uber death weapons and mechs bulky bi-pedal tanks then nobody that hasn't played or seen that setting has 0 [zero] right to say shit about it.
thats why i don't comment on lvl3 designs and objects on the majority.
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 2074
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Sep-2003 23:19 Post subject: RE: O.K. Vagabond this ones just for you |
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O.K. the bulk of my designs will either be for the OLA (you have the link to my thread on HMP and as soonas I figure out how to do it I will extract the info from that thread and repost it on the Fanfic forum here)Clan Ice Hellion or Clan Cloud Cobra ourgroup allows BOOK level 3 so a lot of those designs have some usualy only one or two items on the ones that do. That should give you some paramiters to make a decision on .
Now if you could check out some of thse designs now you have the paramiters I would be interrested.
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Having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have-Rush Limbaugh www.rushlimbaugh.com
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Sep-2003 05:34 Post subject: RE: O.K. Vagabond this ones just for you |
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i may mo. i may.
like i said, i generaly dislike commenting on something constructed for a homebrewed empire i'm not involved in constructing.
complie the data on your nation and i'll look it over then make a judgement call from there.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 2074
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-Sep-2003 22:47 Post subject: RE: O.K. Vagabond this ones just for you |
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On 2003-09-17 05:34, Vagabond wrote:
i may mo. i may.
like i said, i generaly dislike commenting on something constructed for a homebrewed empire i'm not involved in constructing.
complie the data on your nation and i'll look it over then make a judgement call from there.
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O.K. You should find what you need here: http://www.heavymetalpro.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3309 the information is spread through 8 posts it took me two weeks to get it all down. I still have to get the data on 43 star systems.My brother did it up once (this was origonaly for a campagian he was running) I do not know if it still avalable he is in theproccess of moving and the files are currently backed in a boxsomewhere in his basement where they havebeen for a number of years.when I get that information I will be able to do the TO&E and deployments of SDVs and ground troops.
When I figure out to do it I will extract those posts from that thread and post them in the fiction forum here
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Having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have-Rush Limbaugh www.rushlimbaugh.com
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
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Posts: 5741
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Sep-2003 01:46 Post subject: RE: O.K. Vagabond this ones just for you |
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ehhhhh......
i don't wanna read 8 posts, i wanna read 1 file.
maybe i'll look, dunno.
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Sep-2003 19:20 Post subject: RE: O.K. Vagabond this ones just for you |
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Quote:
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On 2003-09-19 01:46, Vagabond wrote:
ehhhhh......
i don't wanna read 8 posts, i wanna read 1 file.
maybe i'll look, dunno.
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I am afraid that is the only place it exists at the time I did that I was new to the computer and did not (in fact still do not)know how to do a file and then transfer it so I just started typing it directly onto the board each one took me 45-90 minutes to do which is why they are spread over 8 posts over a two week period Later on I am going to try to lift the posts and re-post them in the fiction forum here probably in 8 peices because that is the only way I know how to do it,and then I am not sure about it I have moved single posts around within HMP but when I tried to make paper copys of some single posts I ended up with the compete thread
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Having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have-Rush Limbaugh www.rushlimbaugh.com
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
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Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 2074
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Sep-2003 23:34 Post subject: RE: O.K. Vagabond this ones just for you |
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O.K. Vagabond I have posted the history of the Outland Alliance in the Fiction and Fantasy Forum here ,with revisions and I also managed to combine the last three posts I made on the HMP forum into one because the were ajacent to each other (the other posts had posts by other people inbetween them) so now you can find them here also Hunter just posted that he will add it to his website and with his superior computer skills He will probably put it in one chunk.
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