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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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 Posted: 10-Sep-2003 18:05 Post subject: Defender VTOL |
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BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Type/Model: Defender
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3060
Config: V.T.O.L.
Rules: Level 1, Standard design
Mass: 15 tons
Power Plant: 25 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 86.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
1 Autocannon/2
1 Machine Gun
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
This new offering from Quikcell seems to have caught on in Davion space. The
concept is simple: a light, cheap multi-role helicopter centered around a
long-range weapons system. The unit's speed (approximately 36 meters per
second) makes it good for recon and interception roles. The AC/2 allows the
unit range, while the supporting Machine Gun allows use against infantry and a
close-in weapon. Some pilots may scoff at this weapons array, but many eary
Davion pilots soon realized the unit's potential after loading it with the new
experimental AC rounds.
The design itself is ancient- a tadpole shape with the machine gun on the
nose, and the AC either on one wing (with a counterbalance on the other) or in
some instances mounted to one of the landing skids.
==Variants:==
The unit is surprisingly modular, allowing for many different versions. All
versions, however, involve stripping the AC off.
One version calls for trading the AC for an LRM 10 rack. The remaining ton is
allocated according to crew preferences; some like more armor, others like an
Artemis IV, and one report has an additional machine gun with more ammo. A
variation on this LRM variation is that sometimes SRMs are used instead; it is
unknown whether or not MRMs and Rocket Launchers have been used.
Another common variant is to turn the unit into an electronics boat. In this
instance, the most common assortment is TAG (or C3 Slave), ECM, and a BAP; the
remaining tons go to either an SRM 4 or an LRM 5. Occasionally a C3 Master
unit will appear, supported by an SRM 2.
An odd variant that is rumored to have appeard regards removing the machine
gun in order to upgrade the AC to an Ultra model. At this time, we have yet to
confirm this.
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Defender
Mass: 15 tons
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 10 pts Standard 0 1.50
Engine: 25 I.C.E. 0 1.00
Cruise MP: 8
Flank MP: 12
Heat Sinks: 0 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 1.00
Crew: 1 Members 0 .00
Rotor Equipment: Main/Tail Rotors 0 1.50
Armor Factor: 32 pts Standard 0 2.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 2 11
Left / Right Sides: 2 7/7
Rear: 2 5
Rotor: 2 2
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
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1 Autocannon/2 Front 0 45 2 7.00
1 Machine Gun Front 0 100 2 1.00
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TOTALS: 0 4 15.00
Items & Tons Left: 4 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 289,125 C-Bills
Battle Value: 193
Cost per BV: 1,498.06
Weapon Value: 18 / 18 (Ratio = .09 / .09)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 2; MRDmg = 2; LRDmg = 1
BattleForce2: MP: 8V, Armor/Structure: 0 / 1
Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-, Overheat: 0
Class: VA; Point Value: 2
_________________
"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 2074
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Sep-2003 19:38 Post subject: RE: Defender VTOL |
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Interresting little toy I could see this machine being used to pick at enemy units at range while they are engaged with ground units this machine could be a good harrasser or suppport unit I would be courious to see a variant with a fusion engine and either a PPC or ER large laser.
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Sep-2003 21:59 Post subject: RE: Defender VTOL |
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This is Quikcell we're talking about- the same company whose flagship products were the Scorpion and Hetzer tanks.
I was temtped to cook up a few fusion versions, but what was going on with just the ICE was starting to scare even me.
BTW, the ER PPC wouldn't work; it's in the rules (albeit an easily missed passage) that a vehicle can't produce more heat than it can dissipate. Got into a nasty argument over that one.
Like I said, the unit was designed so that the weapons systems were somewhat modular; just about anything can be done with them I guess.
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 11-Sep-2003 00:10 Post subject: RE: Defender VTOL |
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If you want to be really perverse you could mount the AC backwards. That way you can shoot at the guys trying to catch you 
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5741
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Sep-2003 00:16 Post subject: RE: Defender VTOL |
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three words...
armor piercing ammo.
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 2074
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Sep-2003 01:27 Post subject: RE: Defender VTOL |
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Kraken:If you reread my post I wrote PPC NOT ER PPC I wrote ER large laser and while I did not state extra heatsinks there I assume that anyone who mounted an ER large Laser would add two more heat sinks 
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8072
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Sep-2003 08:19 Post subject: RE: Defender VTOL |
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Quote:
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On 2003-09-11 01:27, Motown Scrapper wrote:
Kraken:If you reread my post I wrote PPC NOT ER PPC I wrote ER large laser and while I did not state extra heatsinks there I assume that anyone who mounted an ER large Laser would add two more heat sinks
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He'd have to add all of them, not just 2...ICE units don't get any heat sinks in the engine.
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Sep-2003 08:59 Post subject: RE: Defender VTOL |
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Remember what I said in the fluff concerning the new Davion AC ammo types?
Armor-peircing was the first to mind when I cooked this unit up, followed by precision.
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
Posts: 2074
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Sep-2003 14:50 Post subject: RE: Defender VTOL |
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Quote:
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On 2003-09-10 19:38, Motown Scrapper wrote:
Interresting little toy I could see this machine being used to pick at enemy units at range while they are engaged with ground units this machine could be a good harrasser or suppport unit I would be courious to see a variant with a fusion engine and either a PPC or ER large laser.
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Shesh !!!Do you guys not read my posts??? look again .^I said A variant with a FUSION engine in addition to a better power to weight ratio and the abbility to use energy weapons effeciantly it also negates the need to transport fuel considerably reducing the load on the supply line.I will have to make the next group I post sme of my VTOLs.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5741
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Sep-2003 17:12 Post subject: RE: Defender VTOL |
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unless your a major house, no sain person would own or opperate fusion powered vehicles. they're destroyed to easily and would be my first target for spare parts.
this thing would be scrap if attacked by an lbx or streak srms. its range helps survivability, but each one lost is a fusion engine lost with it. [if using suggested upgrade from Mo.]
plus an important thing to consider is maintence. ice's requireless training in engine repair then a fusion engine. depending on what you consider ice's exactly [turbine, deasel, rotary, ect] the training level goes down further. if its a deasel, you've got a trained tech in 1 month, maybe less. where as fusion repair is a certificate program at your local university.
always ALWAYS consider these things, ESPECIALLY the further from terra you get. periphery stats will take ice machines over fusion or xl. cause its more efficent for them. even importing is unattractive in the long run.
[ This Message was edited by: vagabond on 2003-09-11 17:28 ]
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Sep-2003 19:50 Post subject: RE: Defender VTOL |
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To add to what Vagabond said-
In addition to all the difficulties, you've also got to remember that fusion engines are far more expensive than ICE engines. Plus, parts will also be easier to get. For an ICE engine, if it comes to it you can just rip parts from an appropriately rated engine or raid a civillian parts shed. Fusion still isn't that common in the civilian world, so parts will be a definite issue.
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Sep-2003 21:41 Post subject: RE: Defender VTOL |
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While you have a point on cost ,I do not believe that maintanance will be that much more difficult overall .One thing I like to keep in mind is the supply lines especialy fuel .Quite a few battles were lost in WWII when the attacker ran out of fuel.a problem Fusion engines do not have.Like how well will the defender fight with empty fuel tanks?
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5741
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Sep-2003 22:14 Post subject: RE: Defender VTOL |
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Quote:
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On 2003-09-11 21:41, Motown Scrapper wrote:
While you have a point on cost ,I do not believe that maintanance will be that much more difficult overall .
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The two designs are totally different. where talkin quilalents to the difference between a deasel turbin generator and a nuke reactor. that just a tad more schooling between the two, by 4 or 6 years.
i now a fusion reactor opperates on different principles, but it still darn complicated. a fusion tech needs schooling and lots of it. a ice tech can learn on job and not risk melting the core down.
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One thing I like to keep in mind is the supply lines especialy fuel .Quite a few battles were lost in WWII when the attacker ran out of fuel.a problem Fusion engines do not have.Like how well will the defender fight with empty fuel tanks?
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always a point. and in the long run, fuel costs will be costly. thou as i see it, a nation with low budgets or less high level technologies will prefear to lug around fuel then loose an irriplasable engine that is better used in a mech.
all militaries will have supplie lines. men, medicals, fuel, parts, armor, coolent, ammo, ect. you can't get rid of them.
now i can't truely argue the fuel vs cost point. that would require a cost annalysis, long term gains, short term gains, and maintence efficencies. all of which is time.
so IMHO most military leaders [mercs most of all] will save the fusions for there mechs, and put ICE's in there vehicles. lug around hundreds of tons of fuel. and use there tanks as sprint spear points, and use there mechs as flankers and raiders.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 12-Sep-2003 00:41 Post subject: RE: Defender VTOL |
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Quote:
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On 2003-09-11 22:14, Vagabond wrote:
so IMHO most military leaders [mercs most of all] will save the fusions for there mechs, and put ICE's in there vehicles. lug around hundreds of tons of fuel. and use there tanks as sprint spear points, and use there mechs as flankers and raiders.
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One small merc unit I played for a few battles had a different approach. They used medium mechs as scouts (bait), drawing in the enemy. Then their tanks killed anyone who came looking for some easy kills. Po tanks are cheap, and so are Hetzers. You can afford to lose a few when killing an enemy assault mech lance.
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
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| Posted: 12-Sep-2003 02:36 Post subject: RE: Defender VTOL |
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I have had my best battles fighting with vehicles. ( I tore up 3 clan stars and didnt lose a vehicle). So for the most part I do prefer to up the engine to a fusion, Ill do XL if it improves armor enough as well, as I did with my Apache Vtol. It can take a Clan PPC or Gauss rifle hit to any location and wont breach the armor. It only costs 3.6 Mill but MAY be a bit more survivable.
(As we know it all depends on the Die rolls )
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