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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 917
Location: Spain
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 Posted: 15-May-2003 08:43 Post subject: Missile madness: getting them right once and for all |
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I was thinking that since missiles are rockets fired in preset trajectories and depend of the quality of the firing solution and spread of the salvo to hit, if didn't make much sense that SRMs were fired individually according to standard rules, or fired into a single group (house rule)
I found out that the missile hit chart actually answers to this model, the first group of missiles in a salvo is most of the time going to miss, but it brackets the target for the follow up missiles to hit the target. That's why an LRM 10 has an average accuracy of 60%.
Also, MRMs suck as they are represented. They should be somewhere in between short and long range missiles, not a cut down LRM.
So I thought, SRMs, heavy missiles that are fired in small numbers and with a short range because it has been sacrificed range for a heavier warhead. Since you are putting all the eggs in one basket, their use is limited to short range, the longer the range, the more inaccurate the missiles. In a LRM, you are not missing much if you waste the first group of missiles "bracketing" the target, as you can compenste it with numbers.
And Medium Range Missiles have a niche beetween the powerful and heavy SRMs, and the light but very longe range LRMs.
So here's the basic idea
SRMs 3 points of damage per missile
MRMs 2 points of damage per missile
LRMs 1 points of damage per missile
Now that we have the projectile, we have to consider the weapon that fires it. Theoretically, there's nothing that prevents you from creating, let's say an SRM 5 or an LRM 12
But this is unacceptable from a games rules perspective, unless you meant single shot pods, like helicopter rockets pods, but even then, they are fired in salvos of threes or fours.
Now due to targetting constraints, and the need to simplificate and standardize ammo feed mechanisms and ammunition reloading, there must be by neccessity certain launcher sizes.
Also, there's another factor to considerate. Missile tubes ports are a weak spot in armor, if you place too much ports together, not only are you weakening the structure, but it's a safety hazard, a shot that strikes the missiles while still in the tubes is all the more dangerous with increased chances of a chain reaction if there are many missiles in the tubes.
Though missiles are not particularly explosive, (unless the warheads are armed in the launcher, like hotloading LRMS)since the explosive of the warhead tends to burn rather than explode outright, the fuel is a serious fire hazard.
In a LRM , missile tubes are small in diameter and the missiles are small, and set apart, SRMs are much bigger but fewer in number and spaced apart.
So building an SRM 20 is out of the question.
After this explanation, here comes the practical application.
SRMs are fired in pairs, installed in multiples of 2 racks
MRMs are fired in threes, installed in multiples of 3 racks
LRMs are fired in 5-missile groups,installed in multiples of 5 racks
The procedure to resolve missile strikes, as you can guess, is to divide the missiles of the volley in the appropiate groupings and roll hit location for each of them, and leftover missiles in another group.
Yeah, more die rolls to do for SRMs as compared with grouping them in a single location as I did, but much less of a drag than rolling for each individual missile, and the increased damage is balanced by the splitting of the salvo in pairs.
[ This Message was edited by: Vampire on 2004-01-26 13:48 ]
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 15-May-2003 10:29 Post subject: RE: Reworking missiles |
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So what you are saying is if I fire a SRM-6 and hit with four missiles I would roll twice on the hit location chart, 2 missiles hit per roll for a total of 6 ponts of damage?
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 917
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 15-May-2003 12:22 Post subject: RE: Reworking missiles |
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Quote:
| So what you are saying is if I fire a SRM-6 and hit with four missiles I would roll twice on the hit location chart, 2 missiles hit per roll for a total of 6 ponts of damage? |
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Exactly, you lose some of the punch of rolling all SRMs in the same place, but it's more than compensated with the increase in damage.
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 15-May-2003 12:27 Post subject: RE: Reworking missiles |
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Can you come up with something that doesn't require messing with weapon stats?
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 917
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 15-May-2003 12:39 Post subject: RE: Reworking missiles |
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Short Range Missiles:
Damage: 3 points per missile/ fired in 2 missile groups
Range
Short ____ Medium ____ Long
1-3 ____ 4-6 ____ 7-9
Launcher weight:
Type ____ Tons
SRM-2 ____ 1
SRM-4 ____ 2
SRM-6 ____ 3
Launcher____Shots/Ton____#Missiles/ton____Dmg/Ton
SRM-2 ____ 30 ____ 60 ____ 180
SRM-4 ____ 15 ____ 60 ____ 180
SRM-6 ____ 10 ____ 60 ____ 180
[ This Message was edited by: Vampire on 2004-01-26 13:45 ]
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
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Location: Spain
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| Posted: 15-May-2003 12:47 Post subject: RE: Reworking missiles |
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Quote:
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On 2003-05-15 12:27, Gangrene wrote:
Can you come up with something that doesn't require messing with weapon stats?
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After thinking long and hard about it, weapon stats have to be changed, missiles are the biggest change, but some other weapons have to change as well. Stay tuned
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: Spain
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| Posted: 15-May-2003 12:53 Post subject: RE: Reworking missiles |
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Medium Range Missiles:
Damage: 2 points per missile/ fired in 3 missile groups
Heat:
MRM 3 ____ 2
MRM 6 ____ 4
MRM 9 ____ 6
Range
Short ____ Medium ____ Long
1-4 ____ 5-8 ____ 9-12
Launcher weight:
Type ____ Tons____Crit
MRM 3 ____ 2 ____ 1
MRM 6 ____ 3 ____ 2
MRM 9 ____ 5 ____ 3
Launcher____Shots/Ton____#Missiles/ton____Dmg/Ton
MRM-3 ____ 24 ____ 72 ____ 144
MRM-6 ____ 12 ____ 72 ____ 144
MRM-9 ____ 8 ____ 72 ____ 144
[ This Message was edited by: Vampire on 2004-01-26 16:10 ]
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
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Location: Spain
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| Posted: 15-May-2003 13:05 Post subject: RE: Reworking missiles |
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Long Range Missiles:
Damage: 1 point per missile/ fired in 5 missile groups
Range
Minimum ____ Short ____ Medium ____ Long
6 ____ 1-9 ____ 10-18 ____ 19-27
Launcher weight:
Type ____ Tons
LRM-5 ____ 2
LRM-10 ____ 5
LRM-15 ____ 7
LRM-20 ____ 10
Launcher____Shots/Ton____#Missiles/ton____Dmg/Ton
LRM-5 ____ 24 ____ 120 ____ 120
LRM-10 ____ 12 ____ 120 ____ 120
LRM-15 ____ 8 ____ 120 ____ 120
LRM-20 ____ 6 ____ 120 ____ 120
[ This Message was edited by: Vampire on 2004-01-23 11:01 ]
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-May-2003 17:53 Post subject: RE: Reworking missiles |
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What's you goal? To make missiles easier, more powerful, or more varied?
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
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Location: Spain
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| Posted: 18-May-2003 11:47 Post subject: RE: Reworking missiles |
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Quote:
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On 2003-05-16 17:53, Gangrene wrote:
What's you goal? To make missiles easier, more powerful, or more varied?
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All three of them. And more realistic and consistent with the way they work.
I have playtested the alternatives, and the math does look right.
SRMs with the official rules are worthless,
A SRM-6 is now roughly equivalent to a pair of medium lasers. I regret a bit losing the knockout punch of the SRM 6 under single grouping rules,(wich made them equivalent to a Large Laser on average) but the potential for a killing head shot it's still there.
MRMs just don't work right, the new Rocket Launchers is the concept MRMs tried to represent. MRMs are the compromise weapon.
LRMs... I was frustrated by the inability to fire them at short range. I know the minimum range is there to force players to use them as they were intended, long range weapons and not to slug it out with them from 3 hexes range. But their optimum performance bracket was too narrow. Also, it didn't make sense to me that AC/2s had longer range.
The range boost up also balances them with their more powerful relatives.
Also, in a recent thread people pointed out that without expensive special munitions LRMs fall out of favor. This is intended to fix that.
I did the math, ran some numbers, and changed the ammunition values for MRMs to 72 shots per ton and 24/12/8 salvos per ton like all other missiles, mainly from a book keeping perspective, but also because warhead effectiveness is not a linear progression, as it's dependent of the diameter of the shaped charge, so it's reasonable to accept that with these ammo weights the damage of the MRM still comes within acceptable parameters, and can be explained saying the LRMs sacrifice payload for range. The good thing is that this fits with the need for standarization and logistical neccesities.
Also, the nice thing about this set up is that you can incorporate these missiles into your campaign as new tech. SRMs with more explosive or more destructive, or guidance systems more compact and precise wich affords a higher payload. MRMs as a newer weapon system, and LRMs with same warhead size but more compact guidance systems with an increased range.
You can replace existing MRMs in stock designs with Rocket Launchers.
Also, for 3050+ campaigns, MRMs as implemented make more sense, since SRMs are useless against the long range Clan weaponry, it makes sense they would be replaced by something with a longer range. It's said in the MRM fluff that they are popular with the troops because they can be "retroffited into existing SRM and LRM pods" , well, that's a bit of exageration, but SRM 6 racks being the most popular rack as primary weapon for light units and secondary weapon for many others, can be converted easily into MRM 6 racks.
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 18-May-2003 14:55 Post subject: RE: Reworking missiles |
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Very interesting. I think I like it. I have to play test it first but it looks very promising.
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If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-May-2003 22:30 Post subject: RE: Reworking missiles |
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I think your rules are an improvement on the Btech missile system. It would be nice to have a short range missile system that does a little more damage.
I don't think your rules make using missiles any easier, but they don't make it harder either.
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-May-2003 07:50 Post subject: RE: Reworking missiles |
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Well not making them harder is a good thing... I think you could give missles a more realistic range.... 7 or 8 leagues would do nicely ... 
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A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Shadowking
Kell Hounds
Captain
Joined: 22-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 365
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-May-2003 18:42 Post subject: RE: Reworking missiles |
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| Sounds like you're just trying to redo ATMs to me. 3 dam for short, 2 for med, 1 for long and all that other stuff you said.
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Bael'Zharon
Clan Nova Cat
Warrior
Joined: 04-Jun-2003 00:00
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| Posted: 04-Jun-2003 23:00 Post subject: RE: Reworking missiles |
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I think this is pretty cool... SRMs in my opinion did lack the damage for their size. I think it could work very nice. I'll talk to my gamemaster about it. Thanks for the idea.
[ This Message was edited by: Bael'Zharon on 2003-06-04 23:01 ]
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