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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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 Posted: 03-Dec-2002 00:59 Post subject: RE: Heavy armor |
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On 2002-12-02 19:46, Vagabond wrote:
well heres an idea.......
it kinda slows down play thou....
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Kind of? 
You must have a higher opinion of gamers than I do, because I don't even want players to have to do multiplication or division. From my experience and observations, it seems that the introduction of even elementary mathematics (beyond counting) slows down gameplay considerably.
Your system might be good for something automated, but it would be a bear on pencil and paper.
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Gangrene
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Dec-2002 01:14 Post subject: RE: Heavy armor |
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On 2002-12-02 19:46, Paul wrote:
This armor will make them the only weapons on the battlefield. It won't pay to have anythign else.
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In theory, that's what the 8 pts/ton is supposed to deter. In my own notes I also tackle the problem with arbitrary requirements (i.e. only assault mechs can mount it, takes up crits, can only be mounted on torsos, etc) or structure cost requirements (say, triple internal structure tonnage to use armor). But I want to do a little more research before I dedicate to any of those.
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Hmm. Perhaps have weapons that do 11+ damage do a crit chance roll?
You could add a MoS kind of element to that;
subtract 10 from the damage the weapon does.
subtract this number from 13.
IE, GR: 5 and 8. A roll of 8 or higher on 2d6 generates 1 crit damage. (No doubles or triples until you're actually chewing on internals, or get a floating crit).
Or perhaps if you roll 8 or higher in the above example, you do 1 internal damage, and get a crit chance per normal.
Paul
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Those ideas are not bad, and would probably work in most dedicated gaming groups. As a personal preference I try to eliminate dice rolls in my procedures, not add them.
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Gangrene
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5741
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Dec-2002 03:02 Post subject: RE: Heavy armor |
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well, you could use the to-hit roll as the crit roll also.....
in the example if you needed say 7+ to-hit and you rolled a 8, then you hit and penitrated.
also workin around that can flesh it out.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Dec-2002 12:51 Post subject: RE: Heavy armor |
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Thats an interesting idea! I'll mess around with that.
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Gangrene
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-Dec-2002 09:40 Post subject: RE: Heavy armor |
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In theory, that's what the 8 pts/ton is supposed to deter. In my own notes I also tackle the problem with arbitrary requirements (i.e. only assault mechs can mount it, takes up crits, can only be mounted on torsos, etc) or structure cost requirements (say, triple internal structure tonnage to use armor). But I want to do a little more research before I dedicate to any of those.
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Some of those requirements would help. Something like, the internal structure must weigh 8 tons (if standard, 4 if ES) to support this armor. This'd leave assaults impervious to near all lights. And prevents one from putting it on mediums and heavies, where it'd really hurt; you can at least avoid an assault most of the time.
But even with only 8 points per ton, this armor is immensely powerful. After all, those 8 points can stop 40 ML hits. And the first time it's hit with a PPC, it only drops to 2 points.
This power isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's what you're going for, so it works.
However, they really remove the insentive to field anything other then GR's. Even at 8 points per ton, most other weaponry just wouldn't be worth the time.
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Those ideas are not bad, and would probably work in most dedicated gaming groups. As a personal preference I try to eliminate dice rolls in my procedures, not add them.
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Glad you like em, and I fully support your preference towards less dicerolls.
Vagabond's idea in that sense does sound very promising. I'd personally look at the MoS of the to-hit roll.
IE, *if* a weapon does enough damage to reach or surpass the thresshold, and if the MoS of the to-hit roll is 3 (arbitrary) or more, then it does 1 point of internal damage in addition to it's normal damage.
EG, GR vs a location with 16 armor.
4 absorbed, 11 damage to the armor, 5 left.
MoS was 4. 1 Internal damage added. Crit roll fails.
GR vs a location with 9 armor.
4 absorbed, 9 damage to armor, 2 internals damage. MoS was 3, 1 more internal damage, and 2 crit rolls.
With a LL, the MoS isn't even relevant. Heck, with the current rules, the only weapon capable of causing a blowthrough to your armor is a GR. (not counting Clan weapons)
Which reinforces my opinion that this armor in any setting would force the evolution of weaponry to all units carrying at least 1 GR at the expense of everything else. Which is fine, such evolution occurs in reality as well. If that's not what you're going for though...
Well, I suddenly realize that the above may not be true. Perhaps if you were to playtest the above, you'd find that PPC's can whittle the armor away at a rate to make the blowthrough chance of a GR less important.
Let's see. Atlas. Let's assume you add the same amount of armor tonnage, effectively halving the armor in points.
CT'd have 24 points. You'd need to hit it with a PPC 5 times before chewing on internals.
With std armor, you'd also need to hit it 5 times before hitting internals.
GR: you'd need to hit it 3 times. At which point you'll have done 9 internal damage.
Std armor, you need to hit it 3 times, at which point 2 armor remains.
AC20: You need 2 hits to penetrate the internal structure by 8 damage.
Std armor: you need to hit it 3 times, allowing you to eat up 13 internals.
Hmm, this may not be so bad after all. It'd certainly inspire investments in the GR industry, but a PPC or AC10 totting Mech still goes a long way.
Oh, and I also just realized that this armor will prevent headcapping by GR's: 11 net damage leaves you with 1 internal. At that point a fart would be fatal, but it sure beats an instant splat.
I think that as long as you don't let the high end weapons get a bunch of free internal damage, you're good.
Paul
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Mithras
Federated Suns
Private, First Class
Joined: 03-Jan-2003 00:00
Posts: 30
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Jan-2003 12:08 Post subject: RE: Heavy armor |
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Did I miss something? Last time I checked, RAC-10s didn't exist.
(Shadowking's Battle)
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The Tan Dragon
(Thanks to Hurlbut for the dragon quiz)
[ This Message was edited by: Mithras on 2003-01-06 12:09 ]
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CO_17thRecon
Kell Hounds
Major
Joined: 10-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 1297
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Jan-2003 18:19 Post subject: RE: Heavy armor |
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It's a Level 3 Mechforece UK item, Mithras.
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Jarylan Blackwell
"What the...?! Where did you get THAT?!"
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Mithras
Federated Suns
Private, First Class
Joined: 03-Jan-2003 00:00
Posts: 30
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Jan-2003 01:48 Post subject: RE: Heavy armor |
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| ick
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Storm
Draconis Combine
Chu-i
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 278
Location: United States
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| Posted: 12-Apr-2003 01:13 Post subject: RE: Heavy armor |
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I like it.
Storm
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Storm  "The More that thou sweatest and swearest in training, the less thou bleedest and diest in combat."--Dick Marcinko
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 12-Apr-2003 11:43 Post subject: RE: Heavy armor |
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Thanks
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Gangrene
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