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CO_17thRecon
Kell Hounds
Major
Joined: 10-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 1297
Location: United States
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 Posted: 23-Oct-2002 17:27 Post subject: RE: Project: Timelines (Perfect Sphere) |
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That's interesting, but I'll freely admit that's a bit more radical than I planned to go.
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Jarylan Blackwell
"What the...?! Where did you get THAT?!"
"Creative aquisition."
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crabcakes66
Draconis Combine
Go-cho
Joined: 09-Oct-2002 00:00
Posts: 67
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| Posted: 23-Oct-2002 20:04 Post subject: RE: Project: Timelines (Perfect Sphere) |
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Horhiro that sounds to much like what of would realy have happened to work.....
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[ This Message was edited by: crabcakes66 on 2002-10-23 20:05 ]
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23-Oct-2002 20:22 Post subject: RE: Project: Timelines (Perfect Sphere) |
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I'm going to throw my $0.02 in without having read the whole thread. 
Yes, I doth suck. 
So if someone else already made or refuted the following points, I apologize.
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On 2002-10-20 10:31, CO_17thRecon wrote:
Major Changes from the MW:DA Timeline:
1) The Chaos March continues to exist. (I could use ideas on why the Houses can't dominate it though.)
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The main reason in the current storyline is because the FedSuns were too distracted, and because many worlds there got WoB support.
Truth is, no one there has a hope of surviving unsupported if one of the major states really wants it back.
So one way to keep em is to have the CC and FS (its their worlds) distracted or weak, or to have another major player support the various nations there. The FWL could support anti Cap groups while the DC could support anti fedsun groups. And that can coincide, of course.
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2) The Word of Blake Jihad didn't go nearly as well thanks to a spy. Terra goes back to Comstar.
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Makes sense. Don't forget to have the Jihad severely weaken whoever you want to bring down a notch.
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3) Marik doesn't slide into complete chaos, though they get a civil war and lose some worlds to the Capellans. Afterward, they become united for once.
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Considering the closest to united they've been was under fake Tommy, and considering they've been divided for centuries, I'm not sure how you'd pull that one off without a Davion civil War like (from the House Books, not the FedCom war) conflict in which a single strong man emerges. You'd need some fairly elaborate reforms to ensure unity since the FWL's government is one of several reasons why they are so divided.
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4) The Star League does not disband, though it doesn't get involved in all conflicts.
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Considering by all accounts the SL was a political tool to get ridd of the Clans, and considering the FedCom civil war, the St Ives War and the Lyons Thumb incident, I really have to wonder how you're going to keep it together.
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5) The Grand Council (despite heavy resistance) manages to somewhat unite the clans, much like the Star League does for the Sphere. (Done for balance, really.)
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I have to object there. The Grand Council is not some kind of seperate organization. It is a meeting of Khans who are to be considered eachother's equal, but rarely see eachother that way.
There are only 2 things that will unite the Clans in the way that you envision: an ilClan, or a very strong ilKhan.
Unless the Clans reach a consensus somehow, like on the Invasion back in 3049, unity is even more unlikely then in the FWL.
Of the 2 options, I'd consider an ilKhan the most likely, unless you want something like Herb Beas' Divergent Sphere.
Now you just need a reason for an ilKhan. A renewed Invasion is impossible, per the Great Refusal, however, it makes sense that Clans such as CJF and CW, and even CSA will try to strike at the IS after 3067. Considering how strong the Wardens got in the Grand Council after the Great Refusal, I dont see much unity coming from that.
The Jihad could be a Warden reason for an ilKhan, after which the Warden Clans come to smack down this internal threat to the Inner Sphere, like they said they would in the Great Debate. If so, you might have an easier time explaining why the Jihad didn't fly as well, or as far. Additionally, you dont have to explain away Clan ooccupation; they came to bash Wobblies, not stay.
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6) I call the Lyran Alliance the Lyran Commonwealth 'cause Peter changed the name back. (This is really just a personal thing, I like the Lyran Commonwealth designation more than the Lyran Aliiance.)
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You have my vote.
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FedCom Goverment:
1) Yvonne gets her five years military service and become First Princess instead of Regeant.
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Cool. Go Yvonne. Yvonne for First Lord!
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2) Peter continues doing that Archon thing he does. The LCAF begins to slowly crawl out of their sinkhole. (Although I don't mind Steiner being the least effective military in the Sphere, they need to improve. Even the CCAF can mount decent offensive operations.)
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Hey man, the CCAF was pretty spiffy over the centuries, only outranked by the DCMS and the FSAF when they got their heads out of their ass. Post St Ives, I'd daresay they kick butt.
That said, you'd better hide this before Ruger spots this.
What you could do which'll also heal some post civvy war wounds is to get ridd of RCT's. Instead, make a new system. Can't shake one out of my hat, lemme think on it.
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Tech Levels:
1) Periphery States (And I'll be creating a few more. Maybe even one for the Blakists if they have fans for some reason.): Level 1 and Level 1 1/2.
(Level 1 1/2 are often refitted Level 1 machines that don't use the new technology very well. Some examples can be found in the TRO:3050.)
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Well, two things. First, better make that Wobbly nation, if just to have some conveniant badguys around.
Second, if some periphery nation have access to some level 2 tech, even if its implementation is shitty, whats stopping them from developing those weapons on their own, and deploying them more succesfully?
Rather, I'd say, let the Houses keep their brand spanking new technology, and let 1 or 2 Periphery Nations climb up to SL weapons tech.
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2) Inner Sphere Houses: Level 1, Level 2
3) Comstar: Level 2, Level 3 (Don't mess with Comstar...seriously.)
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How on earth would you explain that? By all accounts they should get a swift kick in the nads from the Jihad. And more so if you let the Crud Clans attack.
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4) Clans: Clan Tech
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If you go down the L3 road, perhaps you should give the odd Clan a few L3 tidbits to. Some Streak LRMs here, some erPulse there. It could help in making one CLan topdog, then again, new weapons tech spreads QUICKLY in the Clans.
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5) Clan Wolverine: Level 1, Level 2, Level
3, Clan Tech (You use what you can get your hands on.)
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Minor pet peev triggered:
Clan Wolverine does not exist anymore.
Its been made very clear they've turned their back on Kerensky's Clan society.
If anything, they'll likely consider themselves a Star League in Exile, like Aleksandr did.
Personally, I dont see them rising too much above SL tech, even after all this time, but I suppose they could have risen up a bit more.
Regardlessly, I think it makes for a better universe if some kind of major mystery remains. The Wolverines/Minesota Tribe is best left undiscovered.
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6) Pirates: Similar to Wolverine.
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How'd they get their claws on L3 stuff?
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1) How can the Chaos March be independent? (Or does no one care if it is reabsorbed?)
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No chance. None. Only if both the CC and FS fracture into several component states who individually lack the ability to grab the various tiny Chaos States. It helps if many nations their join in an alliance, but even that is meaningless compared to a good 50 regiment assault by one House or another.
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2) What should I do with Clan Wolverine? I want to bring them back.
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Ugggg... See above.
Hmm, bring them back... IMHO, they'd want to restore the Star League in the way they think it should be. IOW some idealistic realm, rather then the huge dictatorship it was.
Odds are they dislike the current SL format, although I suppose one could fluff they like the approach of a rotating First Lord.
If they stick purely with the Hidden Hope Doctrine, they could basically return whenever. If they like the Star League II they might join it. If they dislike it, they might wish to overthrow it by force. But I'm strongly oppossed to those who envision the Minesota tribe to be some huge nation. Just doesn't seem plausible.
How's this force a twist though: The MT have been in the IS for ages, and have been trying to manipulate things with varrying degrees of success and failure. Their main coupe was the raising of the Explorer Corps, which also resulted in their main failure: the Clan Invasion which argueably did more harm to the IS then to the Clans.
Recent events has left them with an opening, and they've been working to unite the Chaos March as a new nation based on the ideals they follow. Together with funds trickling in from a few nations (see above) and their own resources, they pull it off (in no small part because the CC and FS lack the ability to dominate in the Chaos March.
They then reveal themselves and their history, setting themselves up as a seperate entity in the Inner Sphere, and leaving their homeworlds a secret.
Then for some unknown reason, the Clans dont reach out n crush them.
Hmm, rough idea, needs a lot of work.
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3) How much havoc should I let the Blakists cause?
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The mroe the better. Definitely makes it easier to keep the Chaos march around if the Jihad makes a huge mess. I'm one of those that things the huge amount of damage they're causing in MWDA is plausible, so have at it.
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4) Any ideas for new periphery states?
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Why do you need more?
Well, apart from a WoB one, and the MT, you could have a bunch of new pirate realms pop up from units that go their own way after the Jihad and FCCW.
New states of the caliber of the MoC and TC are damn near impossible to explain. Both those realms had a solid and noticable backing in fluff. Still, few things are impossible, and where there is a Hansaetic league and a Nuevo Castille, there could be more similarly sized realms in the Deep Periphery.
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I imagine that most of us are rather hard-headed on this board so it would do no good. 
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No kidding? =)
Thats hardly unique to this place. I tried to not attack any ideas to harshly in the above.
Hope this is of use.
Paul
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CO_17thRecon
Kell Hounds
Major
Joined: 10-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 1297
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23-Oct-2002 20:39 Post subject: RE: Project: Timelines (Perfect Sphere) |
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I'll use some of what you said, Paul, and ditch some other ideas. Comstar has Level 3 because of Null-Sig and a few other Star League gems. I didn't say they had a LOT. As for Clan Wolverine (waits for pet peeve trigger to pass), I plan on calling them that because they nevver got around to choosing another name. They've been busy trying to survive. I also plan to be vague with them. I'll create an "area" of worlds, but that's about it. It will be up to individual GMs to determine what the Wolverines strike at and why. As for the Minesota Tribe, who said that was Clan Wolverine? That's a common hypothesis, but I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole. The MT is up to every person who plays, ever person can decide who they are for themselves. In all, I don't plan on making a "concrete" sphere. Just something is that is more or less a continuation of what we have now. You can tweak it as you see fit for your group. As for the FWL civil war, that will be a doozy (That and the Jihad will be the last BIG wars) and I am working on it. Heck, no reason to follow it at all if you don't want, but if you do, please contribute. I'll be asking for help planning waves of the new Clan Invasion soon.
_________________
Jarylan Blackwell
"What the...?! Where did you get THAT?!"
"Creative aquisition."
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23-Oct-2002 20:59 Post subject: RE: Project: Timelines (Perfect Sphere) |
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On 2002-10-23 20:39, CO_17thRecon wrote:
I'll use some of what you said, Paul, and ditch some other ideas.
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Which sure beats having it all ditched.
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Comstar has Level 3 because of Null-Sig and a few other Star League gems. I didn't say they had a LOT.
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Fair enough.
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As for Clan Wolverine (waits for pet peeve trigger to pass), I plan on calling them that because they nevver got around to choosing another name. They've been busy trying to survive.
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I'm sorry, but I have to object there. Too busy to survive to pick another name? Come on, it takes like 5 seconds, and they've had almost 3 centuries.
And they would DEFINITELY not consider themselves a Clan anymore. I feel strongly about that. Just look at how that Grand Council meeting went in which McEvedy declared independance. They were done with Clan society.
I really think they would go back to what they considered their SL roots.
At any rate, I've made my point, so I wont harass you again if you decide to ditch that idea. =)
It's your timeline of course.
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I also plan to be vague with them. I'll create an "area" of worlds, but that's about it. It will be up to individual GMs to determine what the Wolverines strike at and why.
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Good man.
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As for the Minesota Tribe, who said that was Clan Wolverine? That's a common hypothesis, but I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole.
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Why not? And the MT theory is one of the few theories with no real plausible alternative. Occam's Razor.
I will agree though that it doesn't have to be the entire ex CWolverine. Perhaps it fractured, with several small groups going their own independant ways. Could explain the Ummayads.
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The MT is up to every person who plays, ever person can decide who they are for themselves. In all, I don't plan on making a "concrete" sphere. Just something is that is more or less a continuation of what we have now.
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Which you'll get by saying that the MT is part of Clan Wolverine. What on earth else can they be? 99% chance that the MT is what everyone thinks they are.
Beyond that, making a fluent SPhere is a nobel project, and a good idea. You'll need to peg a few things down though. Which is a far cry from pooring things in concrete, and explaining each n every detail, I agree. Saying they're out there could be enough.
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As for the FWL civil war, that will be a doozy (That and the Jihad will be the last BIG wars) and I am working on it.
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Cool. I like Horhiro's idea of Isis taking the throne. No reason you couldn't fluff her as the leader that reforms the FWL into a more stable, united and strong state. It'd also be more autharitarian, but hey, it worked for the other 4, and it worked with Tommy in 'emergency' power, so it'll work for em again.
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Heck, no reason to follow it at all if you don't want, but if you do, please contribute. I'll be asking for help planning waves of the new Clan Invasion soon.
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Didn't really commit one way or the other. Just spotted it, n commented on the ideas you had, whether I saw them as good or bad. As for a renewed Clan Invasion, you'll need to decide if you'd like CSA involved. Thats the only Clan with a shot at the IS. The other Cruds aren't powerful enough, or lack the legal oppertunity.
If CSA is to be involved, they'll need at least 1 world in the CJF or CW OZ.
I think the most fun'll be having them roll over the remains of the FRR, much ComStar action there. Perhaps have CJF go for a round 2 in the ARDC.
Oh, of some note would be that CSA is known for its strategic thinking.
Paul
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 24-Oct-2002 05:35 Post subject: RE: Project: Timelines (Perfect Sphere) |
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Sure bring the Minnesota/Wolverines back. You instantly unite the clans, and they go stampeding back and forth across the innersphere hunting down and exterminating every last one. If you must bring the Wolverines back, they would be vewy, vewy quiet so as not to make anyone aware of their existance. Phelen Kell in one of the clan soucebooks states that the clans routineley check for Wolverine genotypes.
Maybe after they had mixed sufficiently with some other set of deep periphery refugees somewhere, but not before. I would rather whack my left nut with a 5lb sledge than bring Wolverine back in any recogniseable form.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 24-Oct-2002 14:16 Post subject: RE: Project: Timelines (Perfect Sphere) |
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What my group did for the Wolverines was this, they survived. Their holds are about half of what the St. Ives compact held.
Their tech was a mixed bag. They had IS weapons that were closer to Clan tech in weight or heat or damage or range while still retaining some of the IS tech in them. Plus they had come up with some new Gauss weapons that we called Mass Drive Cannons. These had and are slow replacing the Autocannons in the Wolverines. Rough idea of these were think of Gauss rifle workng more like an Autocannon...
Then they had MRMs but these were MRM4, MRM6, MRM8, MRM10 instead of what the IS currently has. They don't have omnimechs since they left BEFORE that tech was discovered and put into use by the Clans.
We felt that they would be a militant group but one who would try to sever cause of good etc...oh did I mention they hate the Clans?
Their interaction with the IS was more of trading tech for tech and trying to stay out of the affairs of the IS while keeping the Clans at bay.
That is all I have from our notes...mostly they were there as part of the periphery...something to have as a check on the Clans so to speak and to allow for the cavarly to arrive if things got out of hand.
Having them out there I think would keep things a guessing game and hints about odd thing happening could be attributed to them.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Packrat
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Private
Joined: 12-Jan-2003 00:00
Posts: 20
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 19-Jan-2003 23:46 Post subject: RE: Project: Timelines (Perfect Sphere) |
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Why not use WOB as a covert bogeyman to stir up trouble in the Chaos march. If they prevent anyone faction from unifing it then it would explain the CM existance. Also they have enough covert and small units to really give someone a headache.
Personally I like having them on Terra. It gives way to yet another liberation of Terra (either SL or Comstar) and gives them access to the whole Inner Sphere. They really do make great bad guys, nutty and loaded with toys.
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SimianVector
ComStar
Recruit
Joined: 26-Nov-2002 00:00
Posts: 7
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| Posted: 21-Jan-2003 16:47 Post subject: RE: Project: Timelines (Perfect Sphere) |
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As a big supporter of the FRR (or these days, what's left of the FRR), I'm always interested in what goes on around there.
A lot of people seem to be assuming that the GBD will be dominated by the Ghost Bear lifestyle, since they have the more powerful military, and battletech is a game about combat. But realistically, the GB population there is a tiny fraction of the native population, all of the infrastructure is setup and run by the natives, all of the local politicians are retaining power, etc. Essentially, I see it going the other way, where GB is eventually absorbed into the FRR way of life, the military takes an FRR flavor, etc.
Since the remaining FRR has close ties to ComStar, and the captured FRR is buddying up to GB, you could justify ComStar's eventual victory over WoB by saying the CGB Touman allied with ComStar during the jihad (extending their role as Warders), maybe in exchange for the rest of the original FRR.
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Mithras
Federated Suns
Private, First Class
Joined: 03-Jan-2003 00:00
Posts: 30
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23-Jan-2003 20:58 Post subject: RE: Project: Timelines (Perfect Sphere) |
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WORD OF BLAKE JIHAD...
Hmmm...I'd say that the Cappellan Confederation, being the greatest threat to the wobbies, gets attacked (y'know, get it out of the way) and WOB breaks its back on the CC since they are somewhat strong, but in the process, breaks the CC, since WOB is just as strong. End of the WOB jihad, the CC is crushed, and begins to rebuild itself in its slightly smaller area, while Isis Marik (I like this idea) rebuilds FWL, taking little bits out of the CC to spite her almost-husband Sun Tzu (cackle).
CHAOS MARCH...
The Chaos March eventually has to do something. Like the nations in Eastern Europe after WW2, they formed entities. Maybe the Chaos March forms 5 or 6 tiny nations that fight amongst themselves, using the little known mercenary units (so the merc units can catch some spotlight), kind of forming sectors like on Solaris 7(davion enclave, liao enclave, steiner enclave, ect.)
FRR / Ghost Bear...
Mesh. Seems logical. Gets recognized by rest of IS after merge.
Steiner / Davion
Yesss!!! GO YVONNE! Love that idea too. George Hasek gets irritated that he didn't do much during civil war, decides to take part of the CC to pass the time. Between Davion and WOB jihad/Marik unification, CC gets "squished", reduced to a tiny state(St. Ives?) Steiner Davion treaty, both rebuild in peace(minus cappellan march, of course).
Pirates / Small Nations
Don't you think its time the small nations clean out some pirates? Alliance between most small outside nations, eliminate pirate doings. Not fully level 2 tech, but very similar to 3050. XLs rare, but er large, er ppc, ssrm2, ect, become normal weapons.
GRAY DEATH LEGION
The first unit I ever truly loved. BUT, its time for them to die off. Wolf's Dragoons are clan. Its ridiculous for IS guys to have a bunch of their mechs fitted with clan XL, its really hard to do. Clan weapons are understandable. They can be bought on the black market, and just take up part of a mech, but to put in a clan engine? NO, you'd have to rebuild the mech around the engine (dont know what I'm talking about? go read the FM: Mercs description of Gray Death. Its infuriatingly munchy) So as a recap of the Gray Death...DIE OFF. Youve left your mark on the IS multiple times. Take a hike. (Wolf's Dragoons should do much of the same. Its time for new Mercs to take over.)
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