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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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 Posted: 02-Dec-2002 19:47 Post subject: RE: Sultan SLT-N3M |
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On 2002-12-02 18:30, Vagabond wrote:
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On 2002-12-02 18:19, Karagin wrote:
Did anyone think of this...sit back use only the LRMs then once you have hurt the other side move in and rely on the PPCs...Yes you build up some heat. Yes it hurts you but you are doing 20 points of damage and can always alternate your fire to keep things from become to hot. Besides, once again, WHO said you would be Alpha Striking everytime you fired?
Sorry but this mech is built to give long range attacks THEN move into medium range and exploit what it can from those long range hits.
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and i can fly.
what if and when your opponet closes range and has a better sustained rate of fire, are you going to do.... he keeps pressing you hard using say a thunderbolt, he sits at 4 hex range blasting away.... your lrm's are damn near useless and even if you fire your ppc's 2:1:2 your building up heat each turn, degrading your machines abilities untill you shut down or are forced to stop firing to cool down..... and then he's got you.
i'm sorry, for its size and weapons it just dosen't cut it. i'll take something else thank you., character or not.
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Again, who said the LRMs would be used up close? I never said that, in fact I think I said it would be best to use them at LONG RANGE...then move in and use the PPCs.
But to address the complaints over the heat, the mech can lose say four tons of armor or that and a medium laser and gain 5 heat sinks, thus it can do a little more. BUT again it's NOT made to fire everything at once.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5642
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Dec-2002 21:40 Post subject: RE: Sultan SLT-N3M |
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i said there useless up close...... AND IF YOU READ WHAT I SAID you'd see that i said, what would you do when a faster better packaged mech rushes yours.... getting under your long range plans forcing you to use your PPC's. If i stay at 4-6 hexes, you won't feasibly imploy your ml. And you can't imploy your lrm to take pressure off your ppc's.
so your left using only your ppc's.... and building up heat quick.
thats how i'd defeat this mech, close to 4-6 hexes and applie pressure till it blows.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Dec-2002 22:17 Post subject: RE: Sultan SLT-N3M |
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The LRMs can still be used...thus a smart MW will know HOW to use the weapons and hopefully he won't have the mech close with him since his buddies, i.e. his lance mates, would and should be doing their job of keeping the other mechs OFF him.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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CO_17thRecon
Kell Hounds
Major
Joined: 10-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 1297
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Dec-2002 22:39 Post subject: RE: Sultan SLT-N3M |
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If it needs lance mates for the sole purpose of protecting it, it's a Support Design. And I have to admit that would be the only way I could use this. It is not a feasible opponent for most of other Assault Machines One-on-One. Medium lasers are decent point defense, but they won't stop a Cyclops from charging in and ripping into the Sultan with its AC/20. The Sultan would not be able to disengage and thus the Cyclops would take some damage while closing, but would pound the Sultan into scrap after it got close enough.
Another example against a BattleMaster (Insert Favorite Configuration Here). The BattleMaster rushes in, with a few PPC/LRM shots here and there. It then pounds on the Sultan with sustained Laser and/or SRM fire and pysichal attacks, while the Sultan counters with 3 MLas.
Overall, a lackluster support machine, but one that has, as Chihawk put it, character.
I'll take an Archer or STK-3H for my Level 1 supporters though.
EDIT: Also, there's the Shogun SHG-2E...another design that could defeat this, but the only thing is, the Shogun would not need to close. It could fight fire with fire, but would sustain the barrage longer.
_________________
Major Joseph Garbo
CO 17th Recon Battalion,
Harewood's Harvesters
“An engineer can look at a pile of junk and tell you what it was, a good one can tell you what went wrong and an expert engineer can put the pile of junk back together.”
[ This Message was edited by: CO_17thRecon on 2002-12-02 22:44 ]
_________________
Jarylan Blackwell
"What the...?! Where did you get THAT?!"
"Creative aquisition."
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Dec-2002 22:44 Post subject: RE: Sultan SLT-N3M |
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Last time I looked ALL mechs needed some kind of support from their lance mates...so why should that be a big surprise for this mech?
Average damage at range from the Twim LRMs is going to be 9 points so a grand total of 18, that is 18 point tell the mech closes with the Sultan, toss in a couple of times with PPCs and you have a big chunk of damage on the attacker.
Yes the AC20 would hurt, but what happens when that misses? Meanwhile the Sultan has weapons that can still fire and hurt the Cyclops...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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CO_17thRecon
Kell Hounds
Major
Joined: 10-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 1297
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Dec-2002 22:50 Post subject: RE: Sultan SLT-N3M |
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It's not that it NEEDS support, it's the type it needs I quesiton. Assault 'Mechs should not have to be "protected".
*shakes head* When it misses? The Cyclops carries quite a bit of ammo. It just fires again. And in one on one battles, which are fairly common, I find, the Sultan is at a disadvantage.
On the upside, the Sultan would prolly mutilate the Charger, and I think might be able to defeat the Atlas. Which couldn't close to damage it effectively. I'll still send a Shogun against this anyday.
But anyway, that's all I've got to say.
_________________
Major Joseph Garbo
CO 17th Recon Battalion,
Harewood's Harvesters
“An engineer can look at a pile of junk and tell you what it was, a good one can tell you what went wrong and an expert engineer can put the pile of junk back together.”
[ This Message was edited by: CO_17thRecon on 2002-12-02 22:51 ]
_________________
Jarylan Blackwell
"What the...?! Where did you get THAT?!"
"Creative aquisition."
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5642
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Dec-2002 23:12 Post subject: RE: Sultan SLT-N3M |
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most of the time, you design a mech to be self sufficent, even if it roll specific. [ie: archer, catapult, and stalker]
its to slow to be used as your suggesting, without support. even then, i use my exterminator who's accompanied by his own lance to rush you and again your catch 22. do you fight the manuverable exterminator who's gonna stick to your mech like napalm or use your lrm's to support your lance mates.
it just can't defend itself well enough IMHO. you need the 3 ml to give token defense at PBR, you need your armor cause you can't move. so that leaves only PPC's and LRM's to switch out.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Dec-2002 23:25 Post subject: RE: Sultan SLT-N3M |
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I disagree with that and I think this mech would do very well, infact I know how well it does, since I have used it before on several occasions.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5642
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Dec-2002 23:35 Post subject: RE: Sultan SLT-N3M |
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BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Sultan
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3025
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 1, Custom design
Mass: 85 tons
Chassis: Standard
Power Plant: 255 Strand Fusion
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
2 PPCs
1 LRM 20
3 Medium Lasers
1 SRM 4
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
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Type/Model: Sultan
Mass: 85 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 130 pts Standard 0 8.50
Engine: 255 6 13.00
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 18 Single 8 8.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 4 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 .00
Armor Factor: 263 pts Standard 0 16.50
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 27 42
Center Torso (Rear): 12
L/R Side Torso: 18 26/26
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 10/10
L/R Arm: 14 28/28
L/R Leg: 18 36/36
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
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1 PPC RA 10 3 7.00
1 PPC LA 10 3 7.00
1 LRM 20 RT 6 18 8 13.00
(Ammo Locations: 3 RT)
3 Medium Lasers LT 9 3 3.00
1 SRM 4 CT 3 25 2 3.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 CT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 38 58 85.00
Crits & Tons Left: 20 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 7,761,860 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,308
Cost per BV: 5,934.14
Weapon Value: 1,519 / 1,519 (Ratio = 1.16 / 1.16)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 17; MRDmg = 15; LRDmg = 8
BattleForce2: MP: 3, Armor/Structure: 7/7
Damage PB/M/L: 3/3/2, Overheat: 3
Class: MA; Point Value: 13
you keep your PPC's, you keep a very feared
LRM, your infighting lasers are maintained,
and you gain a SRM and Heatsinks. You loose
about 6 damage at LRM range and gain 2:1:2
PPC fire ability.
In a side note, you could opperate on 17 heat sinks with near 0 loss over 18.... only difference is you can't run, fire the ppc, and the lrm 20 at 0 heat. i'd take that extra ton and add either a medium laser, or an MG and ammo. Never underestimate infantry.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5642
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Dec-2002 23:45 Post subject: RE: Sultan SLT-N3M |
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then the person you fought was foolish, i could defeat this with a number of heavies and assult fairly easily. most people i play, never get much oppertunity to imploy there LRM's... because by the time they can see me or reasonibly hit me.... i'm within its minimum range.
Which means i'm inside the zone i indicated, and will begin to rip into you with near mint armor and i'll push you to over heating your machine. for goodness sakes man, even the marauder has speed to counter the fact it has 16 heat sinks.... and lets not forget an ac/5 to use with its PPC's. your options are either no weapon or an LRM. bad choices IMHO.
But as you seem to believe this is a truely great mech, i'm just butting my head against a rock. so my peace is said.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Dec-2002 00:53 Post subject: RE: Sultan SLT-N3M |
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Thank you for the ideas and all, I guess we can end this on the note that to some it's NOT good enough and to others it's an okay mech.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1324
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Dec-2002 09:21 Post subject: RE: Sultan SLT-N3M |
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I would probably drop a ton of LRM ammo and either upgrade the SRM to a 6 OR add a ML. I don't think a single MG is going to scare infantry too badly.
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The JadeDragon
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1324
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Dec-2002 09:22 Post subject: RE: Sultan SLT-N3M |
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Karagin, it is not that the machine is not good enough, it is that it could be so much more.
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The JadeDragon
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Dec-2002 09:26 Post subject: RE: Sultan SLT-N3M |
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Again thanks for the comments and ideas...time to move on.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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