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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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 Posted: 02-Nov-2002 23:03 Post subject: What if.... |
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Okay here is an idea we can beat to death...
What if the way heat is handled for vehicles was appiled to mechs...would this hurt mechs more then it does the vehicles or not?
Would it make the game more interesting and bring it down to a more realistic level or not?
Thoughts? Comments? Better ideas?
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2002 00:31 Post subject: RE: What if.... |
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You mean no heat for ammo-dependent guns and mandatory heat sinks for energy weapons?
Some people do design their laser boats with enough heat sinks to fire it all, so they wouldn`t be affected 
The only thing I can see is that your options would be reduced, making battles more predictable. No Alpha strikes risking shutdown, no redundant heat capacity in case you catch some Infernos...That`s boring as hell and I wouldn`t use it.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2002 01:25 Post subject: RE: What if.... |
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Interesting you would rather face hordes of Alpha Strike uber mucnhy mechs then playing the way I suggested...I find that interesting, since most folks dislike the idea of Alpha Stikes and find that to be a mucnhkin tactic...
Thanks for the comments on this...it is interesting to see what folks think...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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CO_17thRecon
Kell Hounds
Major
Joined: 10-Sep-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2002 09:26 Post subject: RE: What if.... |
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How is Alpha Striking a munchy tactic? I tried one just the other day and only dealt five damage while heating myself up to the point that I had to back off for a few turns.
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Jarylan Blackwell
"What the...?! Where did you get THAT?!"
"Creative aquisition."
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Horhiro
Draconis Combine
Samurai
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1625
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2002 09:40 Post subject: RE: What if.... |
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Once they properly corrected the heat scale by indicating that it does in fact go past 30, the munchiness was taken out of alpha striking.
The main problem from alpa striking is a result of players not correctly using the declaration phase.
At too many events I have seen the dec phase disregarded, and thus when it comes to a player's turn to fire,already having been destroyed in the same fire phase, they declare alpha, when reason would say they wouldn't have had they had to declare properly.
Other than that, I love heat and it's effects and would never like to see it go.
On another note, how would battlemechs and the game be effected if their movement was like Aerotech, ie having a velocity and paying higher turning costs at higher velocities?
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"I have lived my life trying to be a virtuous man. The Dragon admires tenacity, and the code of the samurai upholds it as well." -Minobu Tetsuhara
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2058
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2002 11:46 Post subject: RE: What if.... |
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On 2002-11-03 01:25, Karagin wrote:
Interesting you would rather face hordes of Alpha Strike uber mucnhy mechs then playing the way I suggested...I find that interesting, since most folks dislike the idea of Alpha Stikes and find that to be a mucnhkin tactic...
Thanks for the comments on this...it is interesting to see what folks think...
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Um, Karagin, you might want to reread Nightmare's post...I think you misunderstood it...he's saying facing hordes of alpha-strikers, which is what you idea would end up being, would result in boring games...
He's not saying that he wants to face them...
Ruger
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AlexxKnight
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 11-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 787
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2002 12:30 Post subject: RE: What if.... |
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I think that the difference between the way Vehicles and Mechs deal with heat is a result of the system trying to balance vehicles with mechs. Changing this would IMO severely unbalance the game.
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Alexx Knight, Lance Sgt.
Command Company, Crimson Janissaries
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The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. . . And you
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2002 14:26 Post subject: RE: What if.... |
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Sorry Ruger I think it is you who are not reading it right.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2002 14:32 Post subject: RE: What if.... |
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On 2002-11-03 09:26, CO_17thRecon wrote:
How is Alpha Striking a munchy tactic? I tried one just the other day and only dealt five damage while heating myself up to the point that I had to back off for a few turns.
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Let's see it's munchy because it normally envolves the Targ/Pulse combo weapons idea and enough heat sinks to run/jump and fire all the weapons and never once even build up heat. It's a tatic that works in the computer game very well since you can charge the computer mechs and hold down the firing button and unload as fast as the computer can recharge the weapons...this idea is brought over to the board game and used by the munchkin with their Targ/Pulse combo mechs and thus turns the game into something else.
Now what I am suggesting is that if you want engery weapons on a mech you have to pay tonnage for the heat sinks to be able to fire them as vehicles do...you still get the 10 free, but if you go past that then for each point over you need to pay that amount in tonnage just a vehicle does.
I think this would lessen the ability of folks who abuse the aplha strike idea and force them to learn to use the mech.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2058
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2002 14:33 Post subject: RE: What if.... |
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Quote:
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On 2002-11-03 14:26, Karagin wrote:
Sorry Ruger I think it is you who are not reading it right.
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How could I be reading:
"No Alpha strikes risking shutdown, no redundant heat capacity in case you catch some Infernos...That`s boring as hell and I wouldn`t use it. "
As "Oh yeah, I want to play in a game where everyone only makes alpha-strikes..."?
Maybe you're reading something I'm not?
Ruger
[ This Message was edited by: Ruger on 2002-11-03 14:34 ]
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2002 14:34 Post subject: RE: What if.... |
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Maybe, but that is your choice, thanks for input...now back to the topic...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Slythis
Federated Suns
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Joined: 09-Aug-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2002 15:18 Post subject: RE: What if.... |
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ummm... but wouldn't mandatory heat sinks for engery weapons incerage people to Alpha strike? They would have enough heatsinks to handle it and there would be no risk involved. It would kill every game, walk up, Alpha strike, Run away, come back, alpha strike. I'm still working on learning the game and even I can figure that much out.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2002 15:24 Post subject: RE: What if.... |
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On 2002-11-03 15:18, Slythis wrote:
ummm... but wouldn't mandatory heat sinks for engery weapons incerage people to Alpha strike? They would have enough heatsinks to handle it and there would be no risk involved. It would kill every game, walk up, Alpha strike, Run away, come back, alpha strike. I'm still working on learning the game and even I can figure that much out.
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If a person wants to have nothing but two weapons then sure I guess if they want to alpha strike they can, but remember you have to pay for the heat sinks in tonnage after you go past the 10 that come with the mech to start with, so I think it balances out and ends the alpha strike idea since if you go that route you are limiting your self to carrying only a few weapons. Plus it tells oppenents that the person they are playing against has no clue as to how use any other tactic thus the alpha strike has already lost the battle.
Point is for a vehicle with a fusion engine to mount engery weapons that go over the 10 heat sink disapation level, they have to pay weight (ie Tonnage) for more heat sink to be able to use the other engery weapons that are being placed on there. I think this doesn't lean it's self to alpha strike mechs at all.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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AlexxKnight
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 11-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 787
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2002 15:36 Post subject: RE: What if.... |
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WAIT JUST ONE SECOND. If I recall correctly, mechs already get 10 heat sinks, and if you want more, so you can run/jump and fire all your stinking weapons, you have to pay for them, not only in tonnage but in criticals.
So is the question you are asking, really a question?
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Alexx Knight, Lance Sgt.
Command Company, Crimson Janissaries
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The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. . . And you
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CO_17thRecon
Kell Hounds
Major
Joined: 10-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 1297
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Nov-2002 17:47 Post subject: RE: What if.... |
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Quote:
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On 2002-11-02 23:03, Karagin wrote:
Okay here is an idea we can beat to death...
What if the way heat is handled for vehicles was appiled to mechs...would this hurt mechs more then it does the vehicles or not?
Would it make the game more interesting and bring it down to a more realistic level or not?
Thoughts? Comments? Better ideas?
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First, to relate to your Targ/Pulse objections above. Oh well. I can sypathize with them 'cause in the last three games I played recently, I didn't hit all that much. About once every three turns. If it's a real problem, devise a strategy to counter it, like a fast 'Mech with a long range weapon (Example: Pack Hunter). Pulse weps don't have range, so just stay away and pick at them. Going toe to toe with a Targ/Pulse machine will get you scrapped.
Second, (as an example) most Blackknght variants don't carry enough heatsinks to fire all their weapons without overheating. I could easy upgrade almost anyone of them so they could fire everything every turn and build no heat. But that's not fun. The Stalker carries a lot of weaponry, and few heatsinks...but it was designed to fire different combinations at differant range brackets, forcing you to think and choose and plan.
Third, under your idea, no one would abuse Targetting computers and lasers...they'd abuse Targetting computers and Gauss Rifles or AC/20s, which wouldn't need heatsinks and do more damage anyhow.
I think the way heat is handled for 'Mechs fine.
_________________
Jarylan Blackwell
"What the...?! Where did you get THAT?!"
"Creative aquisition."
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